dwarf root stock?

[old fashioned]

I've learned the hard way that pears are grafted to quince rootstock, but what about apples, plums, peaches and cherries?

Any and all info is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'll give the link to the Wikipedia article about it. It saves a lot of typing.

Basic answer is yes, most fruit trees are grow on rootstock. To keep the variety properties the fruit trees are clones, grafted onto rootstock that gives properties you want, such as size, hardiness, disease resistance, etc. If you grow most fruit trees from seed, especially the ones that require cross-pollination from another variety, you have no idea what qualities the tree and fruit will have. Most self-pollinators don't breed true either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_tree_propagation

 

[old fashioned]

Thank you for the info and link, all great info but I did get lost in the technicals of it all. I don't mean to sound rude, so please bear with me. Maybe I should clarify my questions.

Yes, I do know they are nearly all grafted to rootstocks. I just don't know to WHAT rootstock.

Pears to Quince-check (this is the only clear answer in the link)

but what are the others grafted to?

Apples to ?other apples? or other species?
Cherries to ?other cherries? or other?
Peaches to ?other peaches? or other?
Plums to ?other plums? or other?
and so on.

This info may have been included in the link, but I was having info overload and my brain couldn't process it all to find the answers. Maybe I need another cup of coffee to clear the fuzzies.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I did not understand your question. I'm not sure of all of them. Obviously, they have to be something very closely related or they would not grow.

I'm pretty sure apples are grown on apple or crab apple rooststocks. I'm going to try bud grafting an apple onto some crab apples this summer, hoping it will dwarf the tree. It will be fun trying. It is an apple that has been in the family for many many years, not a commercial variety that I am aware of but a huge green apple that turns slightly yellow late in the fall but is great for cooking and making apple butter. The apple is not pretty enough for the average customer to buy it, but we highly prize it. But I'm off topic.

I believe peaches, nectarines, and almonds are so closely related that they could be grown on the same rootstock, but I really don't know for sure and I don't know what they use. I guess my answer is I don't know, other than crab apple is sometimes used as rootstock for apples.

 

[Chickie'sMomaInNH]

thank you for asking this question. i bought some apple seeds last year and i'm going to try and grow them but i knew that they would be cross pollinated with something other than what they had named as the variety. probably crossed with red or yellow delicious apple trees since those seemed common to help pollinate.

and then i thought that most fruit trees are also grafted onto other rootstock. doh!

is there a certain variety that is most commonly used to graft: apples, peaches, and other fruit trees to? or can you use any variety as long as it is from the same family of fruit? or, what i should ask is there any 'rootstock' that is preferred over any others for this?

eta: i think this link to different rootstock might be helpful. i guess i just needed to search some. maybe i should have just asked where is a good place to be buying the rootstock from instead.
http://www.fowlernurseries.com/Rootstocks.htm

 

[Ridgerunner]

I would ask my county extension agent, in the phone book under county government, what rootstock does best in your area and where you can get it. Of course, they may ask what you want the rootstock to contribute tothe final tree. Your taxes pay their salary and questions like this is why they are working.

Specific rootstocks give certain qualities to the final tree. Some are more resistant to certain diseases, some control final tree size, some handle hot or cold weather better, some may do better in wet or dry conditions. Just like you pick a tomato variety for qualities you want, you pick a rootstock for your conditions. If you just graft an apple tree to any old apple tree rotostock there is no telling what you will get.

Odds are if you talk to your county extension agent, they can hook you up with an expert on grow in apples in your state, probably someone at your state land grant university. That's who they will probably go to so they can answer your rootstock question anyway. You might ask if you can talk to them directly. I don't know if the odds of getting an edible apple growing from seeds are as bad as given in the linked article, but I know they are pretty bad. And I was aware commercial growers often use crabapple for cross-pollination, not other commercial apple types. Not all, but some. That's a big reason I planted crabapples around my apple trees. I don't have a good pollinator for my early apple. I don't think I would purchase rootstock to graft apple trees grown from seed on until that apple tree had produced apples that I thought were acceptable. If you have the time, space and inclination you can certainly try growing them from seeds, but I think if you spoke to someone who was very knowledgeable about it, you may change your mind on your approach. It is a long term investment of space and especially your time. This is coming from someone who grows cross-pollinated winter squash just to see what I get.

http://gardenspace.newarchaeology.com/apples_from_seed.php

Good luck!!!

With all this said, may I ask where you bought the apple seeds from? After typing all this I noticed you said you bought the seeds. There may be something going on here other than total absolute random selection????

 

[patandchickens]

There are a whole variety of named rootstocks with well-defined characteristics (they differ in how much they dwarf the tree, disease resistance/susceptibility, cold tolerance, drought/wet tolerance, etc). Like "MM2" and things like that.

I am not offhand sure where to order them -- I know Rosalind ordered a bunch last year, forget from where, and got royally screwed when they could not deliver at the proper time of year!! -- but google should turn something up. Although really your BEST option would be to find a nearby nursery that specializes in fruit trees and could sell you some rootstocks directly. (Not all areas have somewhere like this tho)

If you don't care about dwarfing etc, just want to propagate an existing tree in some way shape or form, you can always dig up a wild apple or crabapple seedling and graft to *that*. No guarantees on exact quality of result, but assuming you get the graft to take, you will at least get An Apple Tree of the desired variety.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[Chickie'sMomaInNH]

I would ask my county extension agent, in the phone book under county government, what rootstock does best in your area and where you can get it. Of course, they may ask what you want the rootstock to contribute tothe final tree. Your taxes pay their salary and questions like this is why they are working.

Specific rootstocks give certain qualities to the final tree. Some are more resistant to certain diseases, some control final tree size, some handle hot or cold weather better, some may do better in wet or dry conditions. Just like you pick a tomato variety for qualities you want, you pick a rootstock for your conditions. If you just graft an apple tree to any old apple tree rotostock there is no telling what you will get.

Odds are if you talk to your county extension agent, they can hook you up with an expert on grow in apples in your state, probably someone at your state land grant university. That's who they will probably go to so they can answer your rootstock question anyway. You might ask if you can talk to them directly. I don't know if the odds of getting an edible apple growing from seeds are as bad as given in the linked article, but I know they are pretty bad. And I was aware commercial growers often use crabapple for cross-pollination, not other commercial apple types. Not all, but some. That's a big reason I planted crabapples around my apple trees. I don't have a good pollinator for my early apple. I don't think I would purchase rootstock to graft apple trees grown from seed on until that apple tree had produced apples that I thought were acceptable. If you have the time, space and inclination you can certainly try growing them from seeds, but I think if you spoke to someone who was very knowledgeable about it, you may change your mind on your approach. It is a long term investment of space and especially your time. This is coming from someone who grows cross-pollinated winter squash just to see what I get.

http://gardenspace.newarchaeology.com/apples_from_seed.php

Good luck!!!

With all this said, may I ask where you bought the apple seeds from? After typing all this I noticed you said you bought the seeds. There may be something going on here other than total absolute random selection????

the seeds were bought off ebay :/ i really have to remember to not buy stuff on there that i should know better about first.

i'm actually going to be getting a few fruit trees from the local county conservancy. i just got their list of plants and they have a few semi-dwarf heirloom varieties i had my eye on some other sites. i'll still try growing the seeds just to see if they will grow anything good. i think one of them was Jonathan and the other i will have to go check the tags in their pots.

 

[patandchickens]

the seeds were bought off ebay :/ <snip> i think one of them was Jonathan and the other i will have to go check the tags in their pots.

Good lord, I am not trying to make you feel bad but I hope you did not pay any more for them+shipping than you would have for buying one (1) Jonathan (or any other variety) apple at the local supermarket, which would provide the self-same seeds AND a snack

The things people sell on ebay! <shaking head in wonderment>

If you have not grafted before, it would probably be good to practice on something else, perhaps practice grafting scions onto an existing tree, or one roadside apple onto another's branch... it is DEFINITELY a learned craft, not something you just do for the first time and bing there it is...

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[Rosalind]

Yeah, don't buy from Raintree. They messed up my rootstock order most annoyingly. Peaceful Valley sometimes has them, but not at this exact moment; Adams County Nursery, ditto--they get them in winter if you want to check back in November/December-ish. Burnt Ridge Nursery has a few, not a great selection. Most nurseries actually do not ever sell rootstock, because they want you to buy trees they personally have grafted, not a tree you have grafted. This is most annoying when you are, for example, trying to salvage a 100-year-old peach tree from a neglected orchard and you really don't want their darn tree. It's not the season for grafting anyway, gotta graft in late winter, like end of February-early March. In the end I just planted the late-delivered rootstocks in the orchard and figured I'd wait till next year. Which was just as well since 9 out of 10 rootstocks I planted died! I have a 30-tree orchard that was all planted from bareroot trees, I know how to plant a bareroot tree, Raintree's quality was just terrible.

Apples to ?other apples? or other species?
Cherries to ?other cherries? or other?
Peaches to ?other peaches? or other?
Plums to ?other plums? or other?

Yep, apples to apples. However, most stonefruit can graft onto any stonefruit stock: Lovell and Citation for peaches, plums, apricots, nectarines. Cherries get a different stock, I think mine are on Colt? But there are a few options. They need to be similar type of trees so that the xylem and phloem match up neatly--that is really what you are trying to do in grafting, match up the pattern of their blood vessels.

I second Pat's suggestion to graft branches onto an existing tree. You can make several grafts, see which ones take, then trim back the other branches when you get what you want. Or not, if you prefer a multi-grafted tree. It's way less headachey than arguing with people who have no intention of selling you the item you wish to purchase.

I believe that it is actually easier to purchase illegal drugs than grafting rootstock. I am not kidding. You'd think there's some sort of Medellin-like cartel controlling who is allowed to have a rootstock. It's that frustrating. They are cheap enough that you tell them, "Look, I'll buy 100 or whatever your minimum order is for commercial growers, I don't care, this is silly, just sell me a dang rootstock, you can use DH's business tax ID if it makes you feel better," and they Just. Will. Not.