How do you start a new garden plot?

I've never really looked into it before, as I've done raised beds or pots instead. Easy peasy.

I want to attempt a more old fashioned garden, but nothing fancy & probably not fully right n proper either.

Haven't decided on size, will measure it out soon. I've read 12-14in deep for first tilling.

I have an area in front of my barn that is currently a thick, boot sucking black muck. It is horse & sheep poop and left over hay from several years. Been slowly accumulating and being mixed up by the animals walking through it, unfortunately.
Can I have this scraped up and tilled into the garden plot?

Can I till in the lawn/grass? Weeds always take over, no matter what. So, I don't want to waste money on removing it. I will find and buy a good top barrier to lay over the plot and plant in little cutouts I make in it.

There's pine trees adding some shade, cant really avoid that, besides cutting down trees. Not going to happen.
Are there certain veggies that don't mind some shade?

I want to grow a little of everything, why not?

So, when talking to someone who preps a new garden, can I just say, "till in the grass a foot deep in this rectangle, then scrape up that muck over yonder & till it in"? Or must other things be done before or during?

Help!

When I started my garden in Arkansas I had a neighbor turn it with a turning plow. Just turn the grass and everything under. Dad did the same thing when he would move his tobacco patch or corn patch to a new location. He had five different locations he'd rotate, when they were not in tobacco or corn they were hay fields. I used a tiller to level mine, Dad would use a disc harrow to chop it up and level it, then a drag harrow to really level it for planting. I don't know if they were turned 8" deep or 18", that will depend on the turning plow, the tractor pulling it, and how hard and rocky the ground is.

I don't know what kind of dirt you have, clay, sand, silt, loam, something else, or some mixture. That muck will be a good addition whatever you have. If the manure and hay is fairly fresh it will not have totally composted yet so mix it in as soon as you can to give it time to work. You can even spread some of it on there before it is turned. Until it finished rotting, composting, or breaking down, whatever term you want to use, it can be kind of messy but the better it is mixed in the soil the faster it breaks own. It is traditional to do this in the fall or early winter to give it more time to break down but you should still have time.

Expect this manure and rotted hay to have a lot of seeds in it. You will have to deal with those. Mulching and ground covers really help.

Most veggies like full sun but some will tolerate some shade. I'll let others address those. But another issue might be tree roots. They could be in the way of turning that soil, which might kill the trees. But if they invade the garden area they can suck the moisture out of the ground. That can make it hard on your veggies. Along those lines, give room around your garden to get separation from the grass. Two possible issues. The grass or weeds can invade your garden from roots or runners and they can get tall enough to provide shade. The branches adn grass will grow inth eopen space even if they do not set down roots. I put a barrier down, often cardboard, and covered it with mulch to help control grass runners. The other issue is that the grass will also suck moisture out of the ground. Dad's outside rows of tobacco or corn were often mach poorer than the inside rows because of the grass sucking moisture and maybe nutrients away.

My plan to start our plot...tilling. I know it's frowned upon by some, but I think it's excusable the first year, especially if you add to it. So, till it and then manually, with a hoe, work in good soil/compost. Ideally, you have your own compost system already, but if not there is always Lowe's. Lay down nulch or wood chips. We're trying our hand at making own mulch this year. It'll be a mix of straw/shreded leaves/pine needles. Dig your hole for your seed directly into the soil under the mulch and cover lightly with mulch once planted (think 1/4 in). In between gardens (spring and fall) plant a cover crop such as buckwheat or clover (you can make clover jelly!!). Mow down and plant. Natural mulch. After the fall garden lay down cardboard and cover with the leaves you just raked/hay/pine needles/etc.

I'm also considering sowing a cover crop between rows after the seedlings get some height to them. This just adds to the soil. That's my plan. We'll see how it all works.

ETA: before muclhing the first time, dump some red wiggler's around the tilled area. You should be able to find those in the fishing section of Walmart or at a bait shop. We'll also be releasing ladybugs (from Amazon) on one side of the garden and praying mantis, once hatched, (from Amazon) on the other side for natural pest control. We'll loose some ladybugs to the mantis but overall those two should keep things in check

secuono said:

I've never really looked into it before, as I've done raised beds or pots instead. Easy peasy.

I want to attempt a more old fashioned garden, but nothing fancy & probably not fully right n proper either.

Haven't decided on size, will measure it out soon. I've read 12-14in deep for first tilling.

I have an area in front of my barn that is currently a thick, boot sucking black muck. It is horse & sheep poop and left over hay from several years. Been slowly accumulating and being mixed up by the animals walking through it, unfortunately.
Can I have this scraped up and tilled into the garden plot?

Can I till in the lawn/grass? Weeds always take over, no matter what. So, I don't want to waste money on removing it. I will find and buy a good top barrier to lay over the plot and plant in little cutouts I make in it.

There's pine trees adding some shade, cant really avoid that, besides cutting down trees. Not going to happen.
Are there certain veggies that don't mind some shade?

I want to grow a little of everything, why not?

So, when talking to someone who preps a new garden, can I just say, "till in the grass a foot deep in this rectangle, then scrape up that muck over yonder & till it in"? Or must other things be done before or during?

Help!

Click to expand...

it really is easier to just smother an area than to till it. cardboard is usually available for not much at all cost and works very well for that purpose. mulching it with old hay or whatever or leaving it bare as long as the wind can't move it (i usually have rocks available if i don't have enough mulch).

the benefits of smothering is that it does not move seeds around within the soil layers so that weed seeds below the germination zone won't be moved to where they can start growing again.

smother an area for a few seasons and then plant into it without majorly disturbing the soil and you will have many fewer weeds than otherwise.

my other approaches to getting an area from cover back into production is by digging a deep enough hole to bury what i can skim from the surface, if i have newspapers or cardboard i'll put a few layers of that over the stuff i'm going to bury as then any extra hardy roots will have a tougher time coming back up. if i've had certain plants dropping a lot of seeds i will also scrape the surface of the area into that hole and bury it with everything else. this gives the worms and soil community years to work on that stuff before it is likely i will disturb that area again.

these two methods do not get rid of all weed seeds, some are pretty stubborn and can persist for years, but that is why low-till, no-till and using cardboard and mulches help so much as they keep the area covered so the ground doesn't get enough light to sprout many of the remaining weed seeds.

the other nice thing is if your soil is less than perfect it is much easier to remove a weed growing in mulch than it is for me to get it out of the clay.

we have the scuffle hoe which works for any bare surface garden weeds, but it is best to use it frequently enough that weeds don't get very big. that also means that it is very easy to skim the surface and chop off any small sprouts happening so they dry out and the worms will chomp them up.

the compost you have could be spread on the surface before covering it with cardboard. the worms will love it.

There must be some gardeners that like weeds - not me!

Sure, I fight with them every year. Sometimes, the weeds are bad enough to suppress the plants I'm trying to grow. Chickweed in shade is an example of one that is hard to have around.

Salad vegetables like lettuce are good in the shade. If there is not too much darkness, green onions and vines like beans, squash and cucumbers can grow. Basil seems to appreciate the shade.

Perennial grasses can be a problem in new garden ground, as Ridge' points out. I am willing to use weed killer in ornamental gardens. There was a garden turned over to me once where quack grass had been allowed to take over. I used that piece of ground for a flower garden the first year. Did a lot of hand-weeding as well as spraying the paths. The second year, it was used for vegetables. I'm not sure that I would do that now but that was how I got that quack grass out, several years ago.

Steve

secuono said:

I've never really looked into it before, as I've done raised beds or pots instead. Easy peasy.

I want to attempt a more old fashioned garden, but nothing fancy & probably not fully right n proper either.

Haven't decided on size, will measure it out soon. I've read 12-14in deep for first tilling.

I have an area in front of my barn that is currently a thick, boot sucking black muck. It is horse & sheep poop and left over hay from several years. Been slowly accumulating and being mixed up by the animals walking through it, unfortunately.
Can I have this scraped up and tilled into the garden plot?

Can I till in the lawn/grass? Weeds always take over, no matter what. So, I don't want to waste money on removing it. I will find and buy a good top barrier to lay over the plot and plant in little cutouts I make in it.

There's pine trees adding some shade, cant really avoid that, besides cutting down trees. Not going to happen.
Are there certain veggies that don't mind some shade?

I want to grow a little of everything, why not?

So, when talking to someone who preps a new garden, can I just say, "till in the grass a foot deep in this rectangle, then scrape up that muck over yonder & till it in"? Or must other things be done before or during?

Help!

Click to expand...

Start small and increase the size every year.I have been using a lot of heavy weight brown cardboard and grass clippings in my vegetable garden. Cardboard and leaves in may flower gardens.. Pine will make the soil acidic. I need to use limestone in my gardens every year. 12-14 inches seems excessive. Don't kill yourself digging that deep over something your read. We have had a weirdly warm winter. If a get a couple of warm days I might be able to do some tilling. Till as soon as you can. Manure, compost and the black muck you spoke of seem like the best start. If you don't have enough soil amendments dig holes and add nutrients and plant in the holes. Learning what will do well for you will just take patience and experimentation.Veggies do not like shade. Weeding is part of the job.

My non-organic, non-approved by most on this board, advice.......but first some questions...
1). What do you want to Grow?
1A). How much do you want to grow? Fresh eating or preserving?
2). In area you choose, WHAT are the weeds? Talking grass or broadleaves?
3). How much time do you anticipate spending on the garden?
4). Consider gardening work or pleasure?

If I were going to start a new garden I would get some black plastic and cover the entire area I want to plant.
Now is the time to do that. The plastic will absorb the heat and kill a lot of the plant seeds. The lack of light will do in the mother plant.
When the time comes to plant I would take that black muck and spread it over the area before tilling or plowing.
You idea of planting through some weed barrier is OK but I've never had a lot of luck doing that. If it were me I would get some seed catalogs and see what they recommend for shade liking plants.
I have a few trees to the west of my garden that are a blessing in the hot weather here. They provide some relief for the garden in the afternoon.

THANX RICH

catjac1975 said:

12-14 inches seems excessive.

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Starting a garden in 3+ locations hereabouts, I never had more than 8" of topsoil to start with. Of course, that's here.

seedcorn said:

1). What do you want to Grow?

Click to expand...

Probably a very good plan is to set aside early, cool-season crops for another year. That would give you extra weeks to allow weeds to recover from tilling and weed seeds to sprout before you hit them again with harrow or hoe or rake or rototiller.

dickiebird said:

trees to the west of my garden that are a blessing in the hot weather here.

Click to expand...

Shade on west has been helpful here. Shade from trees, bushes, and buildings on east has not been.

Steve

The muck is very heavy, I cannot scrape it out myself, need to hire someone with heavy machinery to do it.

I don't compost, just have that barn muck that I've been postponing for years...I don't have the energy to haul poo around.

I have a sheep and horse farm, no poop gathering at all. Horse poo decomposes fast. Sheep poo and bedding during winter is scraped out and spread out where there are low spots around the barn.

I don't gather leaves, I let nature take them away. I don't remove pine needles, as I need them to stay put so that I have less grass to mow.

I bought a bunch of clearance seeds, some I won't eat, others that no critter here can eat, but I've never grown them and just wanted to see how it went. Beats, parsnip, eggplant & radish are new for experimenting. Might give them to family.

We eat corn, cauliflower, broccoli & potato. Cukes into pickles or raw for fish/guinea pig food. Pumpkin & watermelon for sheep/horses.

Pakchoy, celery, Tom thumb lettuce, peppers, carrot, iceberg, red romaine, tomatoes. Those mostly for guinea pigs. Carrot we and horses might eat, but they never grow more than an inch...so...lol. They actually did better when I started them in the house and transplanted than direct sow....Chickens love tomatoes.

Older ones I failed to experiment with were sunflower, okra, pea & cabbage. Cabbage I can turn into sauerkraut. Actually, I think I grew peas when I had my first garden in the front yard, used as animal food.

I did 4-8 of each in raised beds and buckets. Probably the same this time for most. Grew 180~ corn a couple yrs ago, so hopefully more this time. Hoping for more potatoes than 4 buckets and more cukes than 8 plants.

Mostly grasses of some sort, never ending battle with grass shoots zipping across and into buckets constantly. 1/2" of cardboard slows weeds, but soon I can't keep up.

Depends on the weather. Not a morning person, so mid to late afternoons and into the night. Cannot stand heat/humidity. If I'm always weeding, I'm going to give up. I won't be buying mulch. Front garden I used to spend 2-4hrs in it before the weeds started to piss me off.

Both? Tilling, weeding, hauling muck is work. Light weeding, digging around in fluffy dirt, tying plants up and such can be fun.

Pumpkin, tomato, watermelon, those I rather bake the ground somewhere, stick seeds in the ground and then let nature raise them. Just need to remember weed cloth on top.