I'm doing something wrong.

[journey11]

Nothing really wrong in your procedure, Smiles, but here are a couple things to consider...

Your young roo is the right age for a fryer, however, if they have been free-ranged or given much opportunity to run around, they can be tough anyway. I like to confine my young roos for butcher to a tractor or movable pen, then they can't really fight or stretch those legs too much.

Layers will always be tough and require a slow, moist cooking method or pressure cooker. They make great soup!

I know a lot of people brine theirs, but I never do. It is supposed to make the meat juicier, but I've not found a need for it. I suspect Jared is right about the water temperature. I will put mine on ice until I have them all done and processed to prevent food poisoning, but then I bag them up and rest them in the fridge. Two to 5 days is best. The temp in the fridge would be just below 40 degrees. Commercial birds are brined only to wash off the fecal matter that inevitably gets slung everywhere. They use bleach and salt to kill the bacteria. YUCK. A person at home, being much more careful with the intestines and taking precautions for a clean work area will not have to worry so much about salmonella. You do want to cool the bird to 40 degrees quickly as possible, but you don't want it freezing.

It is also really important to work quietly and swiftly, causing the bird as little fear as possible. The tension and chemicals produced by the body in the fear response stiffen the muscles. This is why deer that don't drop on the spot, but had to be tracked are always tougher meat. Before dawn, while chickens are still on the roost is the best time to butcher with the least amount of fuss and struggle for the bird.

But even if you mess up on any of those points, all is not lost. You can always select a slow, moist cooking method and make good use of the meat in soup or noodles. If all else fails, just boil it up with some onion, celery, salt, bay leaf and about 20 peppercorns for the most wonderful chicken broth, better than any you can buy. Even cooked carcasses from a roaster or Thanksgiving turkey will make a delicious stock.

 

[catjac1975]

I can barely remember-greyish I think-it was last spring. My husband learned of the off color of the soup from BYC. The legs are dark, the ends of the feathers that stay in the skin are dark grey. He was told this was why the soup would look bad. Skinning a dozen chickens at once was a pain. I had no takers for a free chicken that you had to skin. They are gorgeous birds!

Cat what color was the skin on your Lav. Orps?

 

[catjac1975]

I need more info on the rigor aspect. I don't quite understand. So the bird gets stiff and then it "Passes through" rigor mortis? SO it softens up again afterwards?

 

[journey11]

Yeah, rigor mortis is temporary.

 

[Smiles Jr.]

Thanks everyone. Looking back at my procedure I think there were two things that contributed to my failure each time.

1. Even though there was very little salt in the ice water, I did leave the birds in there for quite a while on both occasions. I used the "cold soak" time for me to clean up the butchering area, take the hot water and feathers out to the compost pile, wash my tools, and to wash my hands and arms real good. Probably 20 to 30 minutes.

2. All of our chickens are free ranged and they cover a lot of territory in a day. Up hills and down hills. Through the woods and across fields. They vigorously chase each other all over the place. So they get lots of exercise and I'm sure their muscles are much tougher than cage raised birds. The hen a few months ago was a 18 month old Comet and the rooster last weekend was a 3 to 4 month old Delaware.

As many of you know, this chicken stuff is kind of new to me. I got full responsibility of the chickens when my wife became immobile a few years ago. And many years ago when my youngest daughter was still at home she did all the chicken chores.

I always allow my deer to hang on the gambrel out in the barn for several days if it's warm and as much as a week when it's cool. I understand the part the bacteria and enzymes play in "seasoning" the meat. It's a fact that the longer the meat seasons the more tender the meat will be. Maybe I should apply that trick to my chicken processing but all the talk about salmonella makes me cautious.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Jared77]

Catjac:

Rigor mortis (also commonly known as rigor) is a temporary tightening of the muscles when certain naturally occuring enzymes are trapped inside the muscle tissue. As they settle in, they muscles get rigid like they are frozen. Depending on the temperature of the tissues and how fast they lose heat will dictate how quickly the tissues end up in rigor. Even if you move the tissues they will eventually end up in rigor since the enzymes are still getting trapped in the tissue.

The passing of rigor is done by bacteria that breakdown the enzymes that cause the muscle to be locked. Bacteria breakdown those enzymes and once thats done the tissues are again soft, pliable and flaccid like we're used to seeing our meat. Its just a temporary process. Before death the tissues flexible since the enzymes were not trapped in there, and once the enzymes are broken down and removed by bacteria the tissues now flexible again.

That's whats commonly referred to as "passing through rigor".

Make sense?

However as I said before due to temperature changes the process of "passing through" was slowed. So some of those enzymes were still present which is what caused the meat to be chewy. Cat which is why no amount of pressure cooking would have salvaged the meat and why it was inedible even in very small pieces. You were trying to combat a problem at the cellular level and a pressure cooker can't compete.

See we're in a catch 22. We want our meat to be out of rigor so its edible, but not too far broken down that its no longer edible (spoiled) so we keep it cold to slow the process. However when we rush the meat to cook you get the result that Catjac and Smiles posted about with their meat. That's also why I suggested if you were to get the bird processed right away, and cooking you MAY have missed the process all together since it didn't have time to start and gotten a pretty tasty bird out of it. I make no promises on that as I've never tried it personally but I would imagine it could work.

What did our grandparents and greatgrandparents do before they had ice? They kept birds on the run, thats how they stored them. So when they went to eat, they didn't mess around it went to the cook as fast as possible. Thats why there are so many old images of cooks doing the butchering to avoid what Smiles and Catjac ran into. I don't know that this is an ideal set up, but if you didn't/couldn't wait thats how Id do it.

The comet I'm not surprised was tough, Id expect that to be a crock pot meal. Shredded chicken with some mexican seasonings would be how Id have done the comet. Or biscuits and gravy, or soup/stock. That Delaware should have been a good eats and been able to cook anyway you wanted. That was the age they were being processed normally before the Cornish Crosses became popular and replaced the Delaware and the New Hampshire in most kitchens.

Smiles your birds may have a different texture but it shouldn't be inedible. Its a different taste much like eating veal or filet is vs ribeye or NY strip. Both are good, and both are steak but you can't really compare them its apples and oranges.

I always allow my deer to hang on the gambrel out in the barn for several days if it's warm and as much as a week when it's cool. I understand the part the bacteria and enzymes play in "seasoning" the meat. It's a fact that the longer the meat seasons the more tender the meat will be. Maybe I should apply that trick to my chicken processing but all the talk about salmonella makes me cautious.

At the family barn where we all let our venison hang and we process we usually let deer go about a week give or take how schedules work out. The reason the meat is more tender is because its being broken down. Its just like dry aged steak that people pay BIG bucks for.

That same hanging on the gambrel in cool weather is the exact same resting your doing with chicken. A cooler of ice or space in the fridge works wonders. As long as its staying cool your good to go. Salmonella is only a threat if you don't cook it correctly. If you get it up to safe cooking temps it will be safe to eat which I think is 165*F but don't quote me on that. I know all the temps are different.

I think nobody dry ages chicken because it would be too hard to leave the skin on and still remove the internal organs so the meat isn't ruined. Thats just a thought though I'm not sure. I've never tried it.

I'm sorry that both of you had such a bad experience. I hope this helps

 

[catjac1975]

Jared -Thanks for the info. I still believe my roosters, which were professionally slaughtered, were tough due to the age and breed of the bird. They were all dark meat-not a stitch of white even on the breast. They were also very lean. We have raised cornish cross rocks for eons . They are fast growing, sweet and tender. Then again it was a new slaughter house for the roos-maybe they did do something wrong.

Catjac:

Rigor mortis (also commonly known as rigor) is a temporary tightening of the muscles when certain naturally occuring enzymes are trapped inside the muscle tissue. As they settle in, they muscles get rigid like they are frozen. Depending on the temperature of the tissues and how fast they lose heat will dictate how quickly the tissues end up in rigor. Even if you move the tissues they will eventually end up in rigor since the enzymes are still getting trapped in the tissue.

The passing of rigor is done by bacteria that breakdown the enzymes that cause the muscle to be locked. Bacteria breakdown those enzymes and once thats done the tissues are again soft, pliable and flaccid like we're used to seeing our meat. Its just a temporary process. Before death the tissues flexible since the enzymes were not trapped in there, and once the enzymes are broken down and removed by bacteria the tissues now flexible again.

That's whats commonly referred to as "passing through rigor".

Make sense?

However as I said before due to temperature changes the process of "passing through" was slowed. So some of those enzymes were still present which is what caused the meat to be chewy. Cat which is why no amount of pressure cooking would have salvaged the meat and why it was inedible even in very small pieces. You were trying to combat a problem at the cellular level and a pressure cooker can't compete.

See we're in a catch 22. We want our meat to be out of rigor so its edible, but not too far broken down that its no longer edible (spoiled) so we keep it cold to slow the process. However when we rush the meat to cook you get the result that Catjac and Smiles posted about with their meat. That's also why I suggested if you were to get the bird processed right away, and cooking you MAY have missed the process all together since it didn't have time to start and gotten a pretty tasty bird out of it. I make no promises on that as I've never tried it personally but I would imagine it could work.

What did our grandparents and greatgrandparents do before they had ice? They kept birds on the run, thats how they stored them. So when they went to eat, they didn't mess around it went to the cook as fast as possible. Thats why there are so many old images of cooks doing the butchering to avoid what Smiles and Catjac ran into. I don't know that this is an ideal set up, but if you didn't/couldn't wait thats how Id do it.

The comet I'm not surprised was tough, Id expect that to be a crock pot meal. Shredded chicken with some mexican seasonings would be how Id have done the comet. Or biscuits and gravy, or soup/stock. That Delaware should have been a good eats and been able to cook anyway you wanted. That was the age they were being processed normally before the Cornish Crosses became popular and replaced the Delaware and the New Hampshire in most kitchens.

Smiles your birds may have a different texture but it shouldn't be inedible. Its a different taste much like eating veal or filet is vs ribeye or NY strip. Both are good, and both are steak but you can't really compare them its apples and oranges.

I always allow my deer to hang on the gambrel out in the barn for several days if it's warm and as much as a week when it's cool. I understand the part the bacteria and enzymes play in "seasoning" the meat. It's a fact that the longer the meat seasons the more tender the meat will be. Maybe I should apply that trick to my chicken processing but all the talk about salmonella makes me cautious.

At the family barn where we all let our venison hang and we process we usually let deer go about a week give or take how schedules work out. The reason the meat is more tender is because its being broken down. Its just like dry aged steak that people pay BIG bucks for.

That same hanging on the gambrel in cool weather is the exact same resting your doing with chicken. A cooler of ice or space in the fridge works wonders. As long as its staying cool your good to go. Salmonella is only a threat if you don't cook it correctly. If you get it up to safe cooking temps it will be safe to eat which I think is 165*F but don't quote me on that. I know all the temps are different.

I think nobody dry ages chicken because it would be too hard to leave the skin on and still remove the internal organs so the meat isn't ruined. Thats just a thought though I'm not sure. I've never tried it.

I'm sorry that both of you had such a bad experience. I hope this helps