Per breeder organizations challenge USDA's new rules

[bobm]

McClatchy Washington Bureau :"The licensing and inspection standards imposed last year were billed as a crackdown on Internet puppy mills. ... breed organisations think the rules also burden innocent pet breeders. ,,, The new rules regulate " sight unseen" sales, where the buyer and seller are physically separate. USDA estimated that the new rules cover 2,600 - 4600 dog breeders and roughly 325 cat breeders USDA estimates that the covered breeders would have to pay only several hundred dollars to comply . Covered breeders must ensure that their kennels meet requirments that cover space, sanitation, ventilation, lighting and other elements. ... Affidavits filed cost between $10,000 to $15,000 to modify kennels to federal standards. ... The secretary of agriculture believes monitoring must be in place when there is a risk of animal mistreatment... adding that the costs are more than outweighed by the benefit that animals will be treated humanely and well. ( I bred purebred Champion bred Boxers [ my female produced 2 Champions.] She was our FAMILY P E T, lived inside our house played with our kids and their friends, and was a great watch dog. So, am I to build a new shiny kennel for her to live in instead of our own house ? I sold her pups all over the state of California and as far away as Arizona and Alaska . There was NO way that I could have complied with these new rules, much less make a single penny on a sale due to the expense burden. ) During the oral argument... the judge asked the government attorney about what evidence demonstrates the seriousness of the problem. How many complaints were there ? What in the record supports significant burdens? What in the record supports the proportionality of the response ? The attorney conceded he lacked specific information on complaints, while documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act revealed there have only been a handful. Taken together, this could undermine the USDA's defense of the rules which impose some fairly significant burdens. The hearing was to consider a motion for summary judgement on a law suit that's rooted in the Animal Welfare Act. Are these rules and regulations a bleeding heart ploy to put legitimate purebred breeders out of business thereby eliminating competition for their pet sales and establish them as a pet monopoly of dogs and cats of unknown breeding and upbringing ? So, NYboy as well as others that breed Purebred Dogs or Cats , how does this rule and regulation affect your dog / cat breeding ? What is everyones' opinion ?

 

[Jared77]

I have friends who breed both in confirmation circles, as well as working circles (police K9s, Search & Rescue, Schutzhund, hunting dogs) and many don't make a big deal about what they do.

Dogs are placed in appropriate homes and life goes on. I think the idea is the people who are serious will carry on, but those who are not will go away. It's all theory but registration is about ax good as the papers used to house break them.

Health crest are not mandatory for registration, temperament testing is not required, OFA or Penn Hip scores are not required. Hearts, eyes, elbows, all of those things are not required to fe tested. So a system like that doesn't do anything but make it harder on folks.

Now you gave expensive housing for animals who could very well be fear aggressive, or live shorter lives due to structural failures (hips, eyes etc) and are still going to be dumped when it's no longer safe or it's too exoensive to deal with these animals. And backyard breeders won't adhere to these standards and there will still be too many animals for not enough homes.

 

[Nyboy]

I don't think ensuring good roofing, sanitation, ventilion and lighting a bad thing ! My kennel is Licensed by my county. They do surpize inspections a few times a year, you never know when they will show up. I do not ship puppies, if you want a puppy from me you must come in person. I would think Bob your home where puppies are beening raised should pass the requirements. I also don't think someone who has a litter every couple of years would need to worry.

 

[Chickie'sMomaInNH]

since when does an unregulated hoarder/breeder of animals bother to do the proper paperwork or pay to have their animals tested/treated/inspected before they sell animals almost sight unseen? the other question is who comes to inspect the premises to be sure they are up to the required standards? would it be a health inspector, building code inspector, or some new bureaucratically appointed position with an ulterior motive?

i have no problem with someone who occasionally breeds for quality once a year or every other year and doesn't keep more than a few adult dogs on their property and within their own home as part of their family.

 

[Jared77]

Nyboy your right minimums should be in place but to what end? Is a kennel a boarding facility? A groomer? Or someone who has X number of litters a year? Or total number of dogs on the property? At a point your no longer a person with a few dogs you're a kennel and should be evaluated.

Again the people who do it right are not going to be punished because it's not a major change for them. Maybe a few minor things here and there but it's not a major upheaval. Yes breeders should be inspected.

Again the issue lies with people who totally ignore the standards in place and the owner who balks at paying what they feel is an "unfair price" for an animal. Your paying for the breeders time, vaccines, food for the mother, health certs etc. Quality doesn't come cheap.

But then I've always thought the breed clubs should be doing more before allowing puppies to be fully registered. Health clearances for example on hearts, eyes, OFA on hips, elbows and temperament testing.

Until those are passed the dog is on limited registry. I've had 2 dogs both on limited registry till they passed those health clearances AND had a working title before their limited registry was lifted. It was part of the breeders contract and I knew it ahead of time.

But that was a quality breeder not the AKC telling us how it's done. The breed clubs need to step up and start raising the bar on this.

It will never happen because it means less registries which means less $ for them. Well I can dream can't I?

 

[Nyboy]

Jared as always very well said !! Was told to me the AKC is about making money. Here in my county you are allowed 4 dogs anything over you need a kennel lic. If you are a responsable dog owner and take good care of your dogs, the law is not enforced. If you are a horder or collecter that's another story. I only have a few clients with 4 dogs, for most sane people thats to many. What I have a problem with are pet shops telling people their puppies come from good breeders, not puppy mills. A friends brother who had 2 small kids, didn't want to wait till I had a litter went to a pet shop.He bought a cavalier,was so happy came right to me to show it off. I told him put the puppy down I wanted to see it move. I almost fell down watching it limp across the floor, puppy was cripple no way the store didnt know this when they sold it. They even told him it was checked by their vet. I told him to go straight to my vet before the kids saw the puppy. Both back knees where bad surgery about $6,000. He returned puppy

 

[bobm]

Yesterday, the Portland, Or. TV news and a talk show was advertising for this afternoon's telethon for a rescue group to "adopt" a dog or cat. Sob stories galore in the advertising but nothing about the quality , breeding other than a guess as to it's breeding , medical or mental state of the animals not given other than cute, or was rescued / was abused ,or needs a good home. Does anyone here actually believe that these " rescue groups" follow any standards other than being inspected by their own bleeding heart type of people as they are always overcrowded, then ship them to other bleeding heart groups to "adopt" out. Their volunteer Vets use the assembly line method to spay and neuter or vaccinate as they are paid by the head. Yea, I was told of these practices by 2 people that actually worked for pay by the rescue organisations in LA and in Fresno, Cal. but quit in disgust of the group's practices. Here in Portland, dogs are shipped in from S. Cal. due to "overcrowding" there by the truckloads to be "adopted " out with newspaper and / or television news stories and/ or telethon sob story events. Just where do these "rescue" groups get their "rescue" dogs to truck to the PNW in such numbers ? Also in the "pets for sale" section of the newspaper, almost all of the adds are for these types of " rescued" animals. Total dog / cat Costs turn out to be the same for either a known purebred breed of dog / cat with registration and health and vaccination certificate papers from a purebred breeder or one of these unknowns in the long run.

 

[Jared77]

Thank you Nyboy.

Sorry to hear about your friend. That's awful but good call on keeping the kids away. That's not something they need to deal with.

Nobody around here sells puppies. You'll see some kittens occasionally but even that's pretty rare. Usually if you do it's torti or Siamese patterned, or a blue eyed white, something out of the ordinary.

I've had 3 Malinois at once and that was more the enough for me. We have 2 Goldens now and life's "calmer". I think we'll always have 2 would be weird to only have one. I love a good Mal or GSD but I'm no longer in that circle and I don't want another one. It's a lifestyle and I don't want to live like that again. I'll have my gun dogs and be perfectly happy.

I think it's that same more than 4 rule too here but I'm not sure. As I've said before Im not a breeder. I've had offers to use my males for a breeding but I never wanted anything out of the litter that might have been produced. I always told the people who had the bitch and wanted to use a male I had to talk to the breeder. They know the lines and could tell you if it's a good breeding. Lot more to it than just what the stud shows right in front of you.

Oddly enough nobody ever followed through on that. I talked to the breeder and they never got a call. Oh well not my problem. I figure if the breeder gives their blessing then sure use him. If not then no sorry find another stud.

Most rescue agencies Ive heard from have very strict adoption policies and screen potential homes very thoroughly. They will temperament test and won't let dogs who are say food aggressive go to a home with little kids. Or if the cat hates dogs etc. they want permanent homes not a holding area so they can be a bit fanatical. They are trying to do a service and I can't fault them for that.

Nyboy I come from the "you build a house before you paint it" mentality. The "form follows function" school of thought. I don't need a person aka "the judge" to say that my dog can work all day, or has a water resistant coat. I hunt him and have proven his abilities in AKC hunt tests. He has a wash'n'wear coat it's right there.

Here we have the 2013 Westminster breed winner

And a police K9

Do I need to say more?

When you put a dog up for examination your looking for an opinion. It's not a test, it's an interpretation of a standard and dogs are ranked accordingly. When you do something like a hunt test, or Schuzthund, or USPCA it's not an interpretation it's pass or fail. Your back end is weak or at an improper angle the dog won't get enough lift and power to propel it over the hurdles, or the palisade (and yes that's a Beauceron for those keeping score at home) or have it get tired too quickly on a long felony track.

I'm not down on confirmation, but it's too often unfortunately the only time the dogs are evaluated. If a sloped rear end would benefit a working dog wouldn't we see a lot more of them? Let the test dictate what works. Then let us decide color, boning, coat etc.

I'm serious though. The testing I outlined should be done by breeders to ensure they have healthy breeding stock. So it's not out of the realm to expect the same thing but enforce it. EIC (exercise induced collapse) in Labrador Retrievers is commonly tested for in an effort to get a handle on the issue.

Clubs always boast about how they are working for the betterment of the breed. Well let's see them put their money where their mouth is. Mandate the testing and I think things would get better.