Help me Recover this Redbud Tree (Photos Attached)

[Brian2412]

I've recently moved to Richland, WA (Eastern Washington) and have a struggling Redbud tree in the back yard. We are zone 7 (although, probably closer to a high 6). My soil is like beach sand when I dig. I have plenty of water available, but this is a desert (hot summers, cold winters with minimal precip ~7 inches a year). At the recommendation of the local nursery, I added soil amendments to try to help the tree (cutting out grass around the base) and mixing native soil with compost. I've also staked it to help with our high spring winds.

Attached are photo's of the tree. The first photo is unedited. The second photo includes labels of the branches for easier discussion. The third photo shows my proposed pruning cuts (in red). One thing of note is that branch A (right above the Y) didnt produce any leaves this year and appears dead. The house was built in 2005 so I can assume that the tree was planted some time since then I plan on pruning all of my trees in the late winter, but before spring (probably early February). Can you please give me advice?

Thanks!

 

[patandchickens]

If you get hot summers and ~7" of rain per year, honestly I think the best recovery your redbud can hope for is to be removed, converted into compost or mulch, and used to grow something more suited to the situation.

Sorry, JMHO,

Pat

 

[Greensage45]

Ok,

Hate me if you will, firstly you are hardly in a desert! I would wallow in 7inches of rain, but I think what your getting at is that you have to water and not nature alone. LOL You might consider a drip system! I did notice on your other posts that you mounded around the base of each tree. In conditions of wanting to achieve 'deep root' watering a furrow is much better than a mound by far.

Seriously though, what part of this tree is sick? Can you describe the problem? To me it looks to be about 3-5 years old and in perfect order. These cuts you want to make are unnecessary because a redbud is really not meant to take heavy pruning. In time a redbud creates a natural canopy shape; a tall canopy or a short canopy is really the question here. Training a taller canopy through pruning is possible, however, some species of Redbud take on a lower posture, and some take on a higher one. Redbuds naturally are the undergrowth trees of a forest and are really responding to the gaps that are provided by the taller trees. What part of each of these branches are you not happy with? I mean, what are they doing that causes you to want to prune them? Is it height, is it width? Where are you trying to go with this tree? From the looks of things you do not intend to have any other trees surrounding or over it; just a freestanding tree, right?

I do think your choking it with all that support. Redbuds can take wind! The leaves can get trashed but they also continue throughout the year replacing leaves so one season will outweigh another.

Who did that support, was it a local Nurseryman? I would recommend removing it right away. The junction of main branches is exactly at this point and this kind of supporting can harbor bacteria and fungus, not to mention unwanted pests as the tree begins to increase the width. This is a critical juncture in the growth of these branches that will be supporting the top half of the tree and this method is pinching to say the least! All it takes is one year's growth and the expansion will have surpassed the room that is being given to it.

Are you sure your not a Beaver Brian? Four posts, each about a young tree, and in each post you want to take them to the nub of their existence. I say, "move away from those pruners!" Step back, take a breath, and reexamine why you feel you need to do this at such an early time in their development. Sure a branch or two with a minimal diameter causes less heal-time overall, but are we trying to achieve perfection overnight? And what is perfection? Your eagerness to correct something wrong when there is nothing wrong is wrong! LOL

The growing, living part of the tree is that thin bark covering the inner wood. The inner wood of the tree is inert and not growing (like a skeleton). Any breaks or pinches to this thin covering could cause a tree to begin to show signs of failing, and I dearly suspect this is the case (with all your BABY trees). There is also a thing called 'Nurse Branches'; these are the young branches that fill in all the gaps and spaces. Their purpose for being there are to collect as much sunshine as possible and also to provide shade below. Over time Nurse branches are naturally shed by the tree as the tree matures. Most times they do not grow but suspend as small branches until later they are so insignificant the tree doesn't even support them anymore. They can be pruned as an assistance to time, or if one is clearly in your way, but they also carry on vital functions to a young tree and are very important at this point.

I would give all of your 'baby' trees at least a little elbow space and allow them to just flourish as they are. Be careful with any 'Cultivar' or grafted trees in that you are not mounding all that mulch up and around the graft site, as this can cause the tree to fail also. You might reconsider the mound and go with a furrow instead, allowing a deeper more appreciated watering. Surface water is fine for surface plants but as tall as these trees become is, potentially, as deep as the roots can one day reach. The secret to the drip-line and outreach of a tree's roots is best explained by looking at a tree with its reflection in a pool of water. For instance this picture:

See how the reflection portrays how the roots will grow? This is a condition of how the top half naturally is growing. Tall slender trees create deep single tap-roots, where-as wider canopy trees create a wider display of roots.

The reason I mention the roots is because of your mounds and how those mounds may not be supporting the tree properly based on the top half. Also it is a pretty picture LOL :coolsun

I am half rambling, but it really seems to me from your pictures that you need to plant more trees instead of focusing on pruning. Do a few raised beds, find a path to create, get some lawn furniture or something, but wait a bit before you go into such a heavy pruning. Your life may seem to be spinning by, but the life of a tree far surpasses our own and there is plenty of time for pruning.

Good luck,

Ron

ps, looking at Branch "A", I would say someone did this tree a dis-service by removing the end like the did. Now the tree is uneven in its canopy. It will eventually grow out to compensate, so no big deal at this point, but, from your prune markers that you put there I would say that you think that Branch "B" is a central trunk (as in the trunk continued upward). This is not the case. The trunk stops at the 'Stranglehold' of tie-downs! That is where the canopy begins. So you can go ahead and force this tree to do something it does not want to do, or, you can release it to flourish naturally so it may become a beautiful canopy! Again, this tree is perfect other than that one bad cut!

Here is a great example of a Redbud! Outstretched as it should be!

Minus 25-30 years I say the shape is identical to yours if you do not do any pruning at all!

edited to remove unnecessary rudeness

 

[injunjoe]

Brian; Welcome to the forum!
I would follow Ron's (Greensage) advice.

Edited to remove flaming, please refer to the rules
I say this!
"We are Gardeners! We plant and try what is not in the books in hope to see things others say can't be done!"
Injunjoe

 

[Brian2412]

Thank you for your replies and assistance. I know I am coming across eager, but trust me, I'm not frothing at the mouth looking to cut away quite yet

I'm just wanting to make sure that I don't mess up the growth of these trees based on my ignorance (i.e. What? You didn't train those young trees?). We plan to be at this house for awhile and I'd like to help these trees along as best I can. There is such conflicting information out there for the new gardener...I really appreciate the help and advice.

As for this redbud, I need to do a scratch test, but the short branch of the Y appeared dead this summer (no leaf or growth) where they left side was fully vegatative. I have no idea why the cut the central leader (the previous occupants did lots of "neat" things). My big question was, if the right side is dead, should I cut it this winter (to prevent rot), and try and train the left side to be the central leader...or just give it another year and hope a secondary branch will start out of that crotch area towards the right?

Also, the pictures are a little deceiving with my mulch...I'm not mounding it...its very evenly applied about 1/2 - 1 inch deep. It looks rounded because the trees are planted on a big slope (sloping down towards the camera)...

 

[Greensage45]

I see, so did the previous owner also tether the tree down like that?

If Branch "A" is dead, then wait until Spring to prune it off. as for the very awkward lean of Branch "B" without Branch "A" there to level the overall look I would not recommend pulling Branch "B" upward, instead let the tree remain tilted and lopsided.

A surprising thing will happen. A tree knows when it is lopsided. It knows when things are uneven. It will throw a new branch in the vacant space of Branch "A". It is almost like magic and I promise I have seen this happen. A tree instinctively knows the niches to fill, especially 'canopy-type' trees. It might take a season or two, but the tree will compensate itself.

The scratch test on a Redbud might not be as easy as it appears. A Redbud has a very hardened branch at an early age. Go ahead and try it, it is very hard! LOL So Branch "A" may not be dead yet. It simply was cut off by the tethering/choking ties that are in place. Get those loose and free the tree to move about in the winds and it might regenerate life come Spring. I would recommend the 'bend-method', just simply grasp the branch and bend. If it gives freely to movement it is still alive, if it snaps and breaks then it is dead! Then you can prune it off.

Wishing you Luck!

Ron

ps, ....to make a full spectrum of this tree and the landscape, you should seek out two more flowering/ornamental trees to add to it. Why not integrate a white bloomer a few feet back and to the right, and a red bloomer a few feet back and to the left. Choose trees like Crabapple, Hawthorne, Bradford Pear, and so forth...eventually they will form a fuller landscape obscuring that fence and building in the background!

Hawthorne

Crabapple

Bradford Pear

Paint your world with your trees!

 

[patandchickens]

Edited to remove moderated material
Oh please. I suggest replacing a plant with one more likely to thrive in the site maybe three times a year. A lot of people would rather have a plant that does WELL where it is, rather than an essentially-crippled or essentially-misplanted item that limps along sadly. That doesn't have to be EVERYone's preference, but it's not an unreasonable suggestion.

Edited to remove moderated material
"Almost all"? No way.

Sometimes, yes. I was brought up that it is useful to share what *doesn't* work well as well as what *does*, on the theory that language was largely invented to enable people to learn from others' experience rather than having to make all possible mistakes themselves in a limited lifetime.

I'm sorry you don't like posts along those lines, it apparently goes against the unwritten rules of the Ron And Joe Clubhouse here, but, <shrug>.

To the o.p. on the thread, I know it exciting to read books about how to care for your new plants but a lot of the micromanagement is really not necessary and often a bad idea until you have gotten to know your site and your trees for a few years. Remember you cannot "un-prune" something; far fewer problems come from laying off and doing 'watchful waiting' for a year or two, than from leaping in and doing everything you can think of right away Good luck to you,

And everyone else, have fun,

Pat, signing off for good

 

[injunjoe]

Sorry if I have offended you Pat.

But this fella wants pruning suggestions. This tree cost about $70.00 at a US nursery give or take. To tell the new gardener to turn his tree into mulch just don't seem like a good pruning tip!


I did not suggest how to prune it because I live in the subtropics!
You live in the cold tundra as you mention ......

Joe

 

[Greensage45]

I'm sorry you don't like posts along those lines, it apparently goes against the unwritten rules of the Ron And Joe Clubhouse here, but, <shrug>.

Now that is mean!

Edited to remove unnecessary rudeness

Pat, signing off for good

Please don't go, it is obvious we have so much to share with one another!

I am more concerned about the State of Mankind than I am anything else. We as a people have moved so far from the natural elements that sometimes we appear to 'discard' and 'remove' that which almost appears to be in demise, when in actuality we just might be able to learn as we save ourselves and those things around us.

It is just like the adage "one man's weeds are another man's flowers" we cannot have one without the other, but we should consider options before we "throw the baby out with the bathwater". Don't you agree?

So be a weed for a while and stick around Pat, I am sure we will all recognize the flower that you are! :rainbow-sun

Ron

If there is a Club then Joe is definitely the Prez and I am just a worshiping nincompoop!

Edited to say there is no special club here, we're all gardeners, some more knowledgeable about certain topics than the other - and you really have no idea who knows what. Be respectful of everyone participating here.

 

[patandchickens]

I am popping in one last time to clarify something.

I am not suggesting anyone go out and buy a $70 tree and then chuck it.

I am suggesting that since the o.p. inherited this tree with the house, and it is not a species well suited to the climate, soil or site, he might be happier with something else there instead, that can thrive on its own rather than needing to be kept on intensive life support and probably never doing really well.

Despite living in "the cold tundra" (although I don't, actually -- many parts of the lower 48 states are colder than it is here) I grew up outside Philly and spent most of my life in places such as DE, NC, OH, NJ and NY, where there are quite a lot of redbuds. I am thus speaking from personal experience when I say that they are basically a [very small] tree of open forest clearings, and even in cultivation they still expect a consistantly moist fairly humusy soil and some shelter from too much sun and harsh wind. And, as trees and shrubs go, redbuds really have a fairly poor sense of humor about difficult growing conditions. Because they base-sprout fairly readily, they can suck you into keeping 'em languishing along for a long time, but they do not generally grow well or look GOOD unless you give them fairly close to what they want in life. Drought, irrigation, 'beach sand' soil, and being planted out in the open in eastern Washington state are not a great situation for a redbud (none of which is the o.p.'s fault, as the tree was there before he bought the house).

If youse guys get to have a personal 'thing' about never giving up on a plant and trying to keep anything anywhere alive, I get to have a personal 'thing' about it being better (esp. with woody plants -- perennials are somewhat a differetn kettle of fish) to plant things that are inherently well suited to your conditions and will actually *flourish* there, as opposed to merely 'not flatlining for a while'.

Ron, I guess you probably think it is cute to call me a 'weed' and suggest I should want to stick around in case you someday choose to 'recognize me as a flower', but you might ought to think about how that sounds from the other person's perspective.


Pat, who has been on this forum for longer than either of you two have, and will continue to read it as a nonposting guest until there is some local climate change so to speak