Anyone ever do tree surgery?

[Rosalind]

Yeah, I realize this is called the Easy Garden forum. But I thought I'd ask.

We don't have any specific city regulations on how to maintain/preserve trees, I checked. So we don't have any city arborists who can help me out, either I am stuck either importing someone from another town (expensive) or doing it myself. And it's gotta be done, for safety reasons.

The trees in question are four maple trees and one oak. They pretty much all have the same issues:

-50-150 years old and suffering from neglect for almost that long
-storm damage, really bad this year
-not enough wind through the branches to prevent fungal infections, beetles, and subsequent woodpeckers.

I'm assuming that I prune them the way I would prune a smaller tree--thin branches so there's good air circulation while maintaining a generally pleasing shape, cut any storm-damaged branches back to the next undamaged bud, cut several inches back from any dead branches to the next healthy bud, perhaps tar over the cuts? Although I heard that you don't really need to tar over the cuts if the saw is good and sharp, they will manage OK if you don't.

Also, I guess that the importance of a safety harness and good strong rope cannot be over-stated. Figured that one out all by myself

Very sad today, we got a thaw and I went for a hike around the lot to see what needed cut. About five trees around the house need to come down, the storm damage was just too horrible--big, otherwise healthy branches fell down as well as rotten ones, so I suppose that means the whole trunk is pretty much done for. I'm going to lose two maples, a chokecherry, a sour cherry and an ash. Any suggestions for replacements? I was thinking various native birches, black locust, perhaps a willow or two?

These five, I would like to save though, they are right in the yard where they contribute mightily to the landscape.

The woodlot behind the yard, which we are maintaining as forest, consists of the following:

Shagbark hickory
maple
ash
oak
white pine
beech
juniper
douglas fir
spruce
mulberry

Basically, we've got a real nice canopy shade thing going. After I take out the five bad trees and fix the five I want to save, I'm going to cut out a lot of weedy smallish volunteer trees too, so any suggestions about what to plant for the understory would also be most welcome. Whaddaya think? More evergreens?

 

[patandchickens]

We don't have any specific city regulations on how to maintain/preserve trees, I checked. So we don't have any city arborists who can help me out, either I am stuck either importing someone from another town (expensive) or doing it myself. And it's gotta be done, for safety reasons.

Hm, I know you like to do things yourself and I respect that, but personally I think it'd be an awfully good idea to plonk down some cash to have a *good* professional out, since these are Big Trees.

First, because a pro is insured and you are not (relevant if the trees are within whomping distance of house); second, because if you like to do things yourself you are going to be really upset if you are laid up for four months with broken bones from large limbs moving in unexpected ways as they detach from the tree, as large limbs are wont to do; and third, because I think it would probably take a pro's experience to tell you what's worth trying to save and what is just a goner. You don't want to be battling large, slowly self-disassembling trees for the next five or ten years.

tar over the cuts? Although I heard that you don't really need to tar over the cuts if the saw is good and sharp, they will manage OK if you don't.

FWIW, as far as I know the current evidence-based dogma is not to paint any kind of glop on the cuts at all, but to make real sure you cut in exactly the right place (at, but not into, branch collar).

I'm going to lose two maples, a chokecherry, a sour cherry and an ash. Any suggestions for replacements? I was thinking various native birches, black locust, perhaps a willow or two?

Those sound like good options. Sweet birch is a particularly nice tree, among the birches. Could you grow beech? That's a really good tree, especially in groups, if you've got the soil for it.

If you are willing to go non-native, seriously consider amur chokecherry Prunus maackii - it grows real fast, looks basically like a chokecherry only nicer form, and has *gorgeous* sort of ambery-coppery bark. Put it somewhere you can see it with low winter sunlight hitting the trunk - spectactular I know it's not native, but I have not heard of it getting invasively feral anywhere.

Basically, we've got a real nice canopy shade thing going. After I take out the five bad trees and fix the five I want to save, I'm going to cut out a lot of weedy smallish volunteer trees too, so any suggestions about what to plant for the understory would also be most welcome. Whaddaya think? More evergreens?

Sure, but there are also lots of nice understory deciduous trees too. Pagoda dogwood, Cornus alterniflora, and if you don't need it to look strictly wildernessy the variegated-leaved form is quite striking. The small stripe-barked maples are nice, such as Acer pensylvanica (sp?). Bladdernut, Staphylea somethingorother, is another very interesting little tree (or large few-stemmed shrub, whatever you want to call it) if you have a suitable location. I suppose you are too far north for redbud? Or pawpaw? The native witchhazel that blooms in very late fall jsut before its leaves fall, Hamamelis virginiana, is good to plant somewhere you can catch its scent - the flowers get lost in the yellowed leaves, but it does smell quite nice.

Do you have anywhere that the broadleafed evergreens would be happy? You may be too far north for holly but what about mountain laurel or some of the hardier rhodies and azaleas. You could pick native-ish ones, or there are a few actual (though not quite as attractive) natives, I am thinking somethingorother groenlandicum, sorry, I have a wicked cold and my brain cells are on strike.

Sounds like fun anyhow. Well I mean apart from the grunt-work aspect <g>. I am totally jealous of your having a woodlot to play in

Signed,

Pat, out in the middle of an open windy clayey ex-hayfield. Which is currently mostly flooded and about to freeze that way.

 

[patandchickens]

Oh, and if you have any sunnier gaps, everyone should have an Amelanchier or three. Shadblow, whatever you want to call it. Pretty little white apple-type blossoms in spring, theoretically berries in late summer (not that I ahve ever seen a berry on any amelanchier anywhere, the birds get them first), graceful growth form especially if given a little editorial pruning. Lovely fall color too, esp. if it gets a little mroe rather than a little less sun.


Pat, still jealous of people with wooded areas to plant, although fortunately amelanchier does well in more exposed areas too

 

[silkiechicken]

Yeah, hiring someone for the peace of mind that there is insurance if the tree falls on the house is good... and peace of mind that you're not the one dangling up in a tree with a whole lot of potential energy.

In my mind, these trees are like 50-75 feet tall and really bushy. Either way sounds kind of dangerous. Craigslist maybe for tree services?

We had quotes rainging from 500 + lumber, to 4k + 50% lumber to remove about 15-20 evergreen trees.

 

[Rosalind]

Wow, good suggestions.

Yeah, they are about 50-75 feet tall. The oak is about 100 feet tall but all the bad stuff ends around 50 feet. They aren't bushy per se. More like, they once had good form and then a couple of main branches were storm-damaged years ago, and the damage was never cut out, so bugs got in that branch, then the woodpeckers pecked holes to get the bugs...

None are within house-damaging distance, thank goodness. Whoever planted them at least had that much brains, to locate large trees far from foundations. The only one that could conceivably take some stoop roof shingles down is fairly healthy and only needs thinned to get better air circulation. I didn't like that stoop anyway

We have one, count 'em, one local arborist the next town over. I emailed them for a quote, but it looks like it will be along the lines of "well, how much money do you have" type of thing. $500 I can swing. Over $1000 is where it starts being worth my while to climb trees. Most other local landscaping companies trim all trees, regardless of species, into a Xmas tree shape and call it good. So, we'll see. I am holding out no great hope.

We've already got plenty of beeches. So many in fact that there are some weedy, ill-placed ones that must go, so that nearby larger beeches can grow properly into a decent shape. Witch hazel sounds good--this supports bees, does it not? Bees are good, bees are my friends. Holly, hmm, I have a few holly bushes right by the house that remain small, perhaps as part of an understory they would get bigger? Less sunburnt, surely.

Funny you mention pawpaws, I planted two last year that are supposed to be hardy to Zone 3, and I'm in 6a. They were the only fruit trees that the Voracious Deer of Doom did not touch. Don't know how they will bud out in the spring, but they are supposedly cold-hardy.

Do you think if I planted some of those Amelanchiers, the birds would eat those instead of my blueberries, and I would get more than three berries out of 12 plants? Or do you think I would just get a vast overpopulation of sparrows?

I fear that DH would look at a bladdernut, notice three leaves, and go nuts with the weedwhacker. Botanical IDs are not his forte.

I was thinking more evergreens because right now the evergreens that are there look kinda lame--there's this big 1-acre grassy yard with some trees kinda scattered around it hither and yon. This one acre of grass is terraced with rock retaining walls, so there's a sort of picnic area and then a soccer field-size area. Along the back part of this one acre is a line of straggly evergreens interspersed with some weedy little volunteer maples, beeches and hickories, and the little weedy things are coming out so the evergreens can be less straggly. Just behind this line of evergreens is, on the right, a fenced-in orchard, and on the left is a bunch of messy woodlot. Behind the orchard is more messy woodlot. Behind the woodlot is wildlife preserve, and I am supposed to keep a clear easement for the wildlife biologists to go hiking in said preserve.

Right now I am not doing this because I suck. No, because I need to get caught up on this tree thing, then I can clear brush from under them and plant a nice park-like understory. The brush in question is invasive Asian bittersweet, so it's better off gone.

 

[patandchickens]

Witch hazel sounds good--this supports bees, does it not? Bees are good, bees are my friends.

If it does any good it's for the bees' last few foraging trips before winter... witchhazel (the native one) blooms REALLY late, like when leaves are turning color and falling. Bees might still be foraging then though?

Do you think if I planted some of those Amelanchiers, the birds would eat those instead of my blueberries, and I would get more than three berries out of 12 plants? Or do you think I would just get a vast overpopulation of sparrows?

Yes. But before and after the Hitchcockian bird scenes, you would have nice flowers and nicer autumn leaves, so it would still be worth it

I fear that DH would look at a bladdernut, notice three leaves, and go nuts with the weedwhacker. Botanical IDs are not his forte.

Yeah, my DH's botany pretty much begins and ends at 'will this damage the lawnmower if I run over it'. I have learned to protect everything with LARGE stakes until it reaches lawnmower-damaging proportions

I was thinking more evergreens because right now the evergreens that are there look kinda lame--

Well, some of the juniper and cedar cultivars that are more compact and less straggly in shape might help sort of punch things up without looking unnatural, and if you ask me ANY landscape benefits from a few broadleaf evergreens if there are any that will survive there. If you have pockets of moisture-retentive at least mildly acidic soil, and it sounds like you prolly do, you should be ok. Perhaps some of the less-violently-colored azaleas of the 'Lights' series? Or mountain laurel. Or, I remembered its name, Ledum groenlandicum, it is a little straggly-looking by garden standards and not huge, but gives you Visual Variety in the wintertime.

The brush in question is invasive Asian bittersweet, so it's better off gone.

Indeedy!

Have fun,

Pat
(p.s. have you tried hanging little mesh baggies of Irish Spring or Cashmere soap from the trees that the Voracious Deer of Doom are eating? This is the only deer cure (well semi cure) I've heard of that seems to bat more than .500 in most areas, although it is not perfect. If you have tried itand the deer or chipmunks just ate the soap, then never mind )

 

[Rosalind]

I've seen some late bees in October. Counted at least three bee species foraging round these parts in my oregano, the CCD did not hit us so hard. OK, witch hazels are definitely on the list. Amelanchiers too, a few hollies and I will have to see what I can get for non-radioactively-glowing azaleas. Also bayberries, I hear those are not exactly evergreen but do hang on to their leaves a very long time. The way the woodlot looks, it looks like the property ends at the line of straggly evergreens. I would rather it look more like a managed forest park, and let the nature preserve look like a seedy, tick-infested woodlot all it wants. My neighbors have a mistaken belief that it's OK to come in my yard and cut down trees for their woodstove if they think I'm not minding/noticing, this must change.

Pat, nothing, but absolutely nothing short of a 6' solid wood fence, a very enthusiastic dog and a venison-eating household was going to stop these deer. Predator urine bought in jugs from the feed store, wire fencing, electrified fence, insecticidal soap mixed with powdered habanero peppers and garlic did not stop these buggers. It got to the point where the ag inspector who came to inspect my chickens told me, "Just shoot 'em, hang 'em up to bleed behind the barn and cut 'em into steaks. You're allowed to defend your crops." I am a lousy shot, though.

 

[Rosalind]

Okay, now the question is, what kind of Amelanchiers are your favorite? Apparently I have many choices, but sadly the Forest Farm catalog is lacking in color photos, and there don't seem to be so very many pictures of individual cultivars on teh intarwebs, either.

 

[bills]

I wonder if you could offset the cost of the tree cutting/falling somewhat by selling the wood? Firewood locally sells for $100-150 per cord, with the higher price for split firewood, lower for unsplit. I had seven problem trees cut this last fall, which in turn gave me 4 cords of firewood, for my winter heating. Cost was equal to the tree fallers expenses, if I'd had to buy firewood.

The other possibility is that cabinet, and furniture makers may love to get their hands on some of that wood. Small Artisan type business's may love some of that wood for their projects as well. A few phone calls may find you a buyer, or you could barter a bit. They pay for the cost of cutting in exchange for the wood. That way they could also choose the lengths they want the cuts.

Just a thought.

 

[patandchickens]

I don't personally know much about amelanchier cultivars -- but other than size and alleged hardiness I am not certain there is a huge difference among them (?). Although the named cultivars do often seem to be better-shaped and bushier than the plain vanilla species (which is what I have).

Sorry not to have more info, probably someone else can help,


Pat