Lets Discuss "Public" Education Funding

[OldGuy43]

Wow, engineering degree, of no value to you? How many self proclaimed experts would get hired in the computer industry today? My dad learned mechanics by just doing, built his own business. When he got out, he knew the automotive industry was going to pass him by because he no longer felt the need to keep up or buy the equipment. Today, employers require you to be educated before you are hired. Only initial IT employees learned on the job--they all have degrees in something. Computer industry is still a young industry.

You say your parents didn't care, sorry, don't believe that. You obviously gave them no reason to worry.

To be honest, I could find work in my chosen field, but nothing that paid what I was making without the degree. They all said things like, "You have to pay your dues." and "You don't have any real experience." My timing was bad, too. I made the mistake of graduating a couple of years after the first man landed on the moon.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I know what you mean about timing. There were some challenges then, but I got a job using my engineering degree and pretty much stuck with it for my career. My career did take a few strange twists and after a while I really didn't use that degree a lot, but it was required to get hired.

I don't really know how important the detailed knowledge you get with a degree really is. Obviously it will vary depending on the degree and the employer, but I think a lot of it is more that getting a college degree shows your character. It shows that you can complete a task or reach a goal and your grades are an indication of how goal-oriented you are. It also gives you a chance to mature and your extracurricular activites gives the astute employer an indication of your actual abilities and such when you are on your own and probably not under your parents' direct supervision.

 

[OldGuy43]

In many cases it's a matter of the corporate CYA (Cover Your...) attitude that started back in the 50's. Back in the mid-60's I was friend's with a fellow who was the Human Resources Director for a large corporation. We were all sitting around in the yard, drinking beer and just B.S.'ing (Remember when people did that?) and someone posed this hypothetical to him:

You have two men applying for the same job. One has lots of experience, but no degree and the other has no experience, but does have a degree. Which do you hire?

His immediate response was:

The one with the degree! If he screws up I can always say, "Well, he had a degree. If I hire the other fellow and he screws up it was a judgement call on my part."

Yes, the fact that I have a degree did play a part in my getting several jobs, I'm sure.

Now, can we get back to the original topic?

 

[Jared77]

What do the following people have in common? Herman Melville, Ernest Hemingway, Frank Zappa, Errol Flynn, Nol Coward, Frank Lloyd Wright, Gustave Eiffel, James Watt, The Wright Brothers, Charles Darwin, Michael Faraday, Benjamin Franklin and Abraham Lincoln. All were more or less self-educated.

Those were the exceptions not the standard. How many others in their generation are uneducated folks doing manual labor because they couldn't read, write, solve simple equations, or have any other skill set than brute force/strength?

Without a real nationwide system in place your placing a lot of responsibilty on the parents which many now show little to no desire to do anything to educate their children. And increasing that is only going to make things worse. Your going to increase the undeducated and only redirect millions of dollars that went to schools into other long term assistance programs because of the new uneducated generation your system creates.

The parents who care are going to get their kids a good education. They are involved. They want their kids to succeed. That's why homeschooling often works. Because the parents CARE.

I've worked in Detroit where they are dancing in the streets over raising the graduation rate to 62% for 2011 http://detroitk12.org/content/2011/...e-state-began-new-cohort-methodology-in-2007/ 62%!!!!! And yes they should be proud of what they've accomplished. However 62% is still embaressing. The thing is many of the parents of these kids just don't care. Many of these kids are left alone to fend for themselves till dark because its not safe, or they have to be back in school the next day.

So how many of those parents are going to actually make it a point to get their kid to school, let alone to a better performing school on the other side of town? Or in the next town? Not going to happen.

Not enough of them are having their parents sit down and go through their homework with them. Help them use proper grammer, or show their work so they know they know the answers. How many of them actually say they are proud of their son or daughter? Or even bother to show them affection?

Part of it is a school issue, but part of it is a parenting issue. I work hard to make sure my daughter is learning as much as she can that's part of my responsibility as her father. Its not enough to send her to school and expect them to educate her. I have to take the initiative and be sure she's doing her work, and its done right not just done. I always had my parents proof read my work because they would do that early on so it was habit. They took the time to read to me, to make sure I didn't have any run-on sentences, and I carried the 1.

We have whats called "School of choice" here in Michigan. Everybody can go to any school they want to provided there are openings. Its not merit based or anything else, its literally available slots in the school district. So if you want your kid to go to a different school you can. The trade though is you have to get them there if you go to a system outside your district. It has its advantages because you can get your kid out of an underperforming system if you have the resources but it creates a whole new set of problems trying to get the kids to that area. It really hasn't made that much of a difference around here. Its free enterprise but its not really making a big difference.

You can't tell me that fancy buildings with a gymnasium, a cafeteria, a football stadium and classes in Comparative Folk Dancing are necessary to get a good education.

I think this is more of a problem at the college level than at a public school level. The rising cost of tuition, paying for these extravagent work out rooms, stadiums, coaches salaries etc. No public school I know of has classes in Comparative Folk Dancing.

 

[OldGuy43]

Of course they're the exceptions, but that just proves that it can be done.

As for the second part; you've obviously never lived in Texas. Here, high school students major in football.

Besides, someone has to do the manual labor.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Are you suggesting that education should be left to the parents and government should not be involved?

 

[OldGuy43]

Are you suggesting that education should be left to the parents and government should not be involved?

Did you read my first post?

 

[Ridgerunner]

I just wanted to clarify it. No need for me to open this thread any more. See you on some of the other threads.