Occupy the Food System

[OldGuy43]

Social security. Maybe it is time to means test. Instead of everyone getting it or getting the same amount, change it to where it keeps people from eating out of garbage cans, not help support a country club lifestyle?

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that Social Security is a government giveaway program. It most definitely is not! I have been paying into it ever since I started my first job at age fifteen. It is a contractual obligation that the government forced us into. As originally conceived, it was meant to be a retirement plan for those who didn't have one. That is the reason that railroad employees don't pay into it. They already had a retirement program long before Social Security.

Interestingly, members of Congress didn't start paying into Social Security until 1984. The reason for that is that they were covered under the Civil Service Retirement System that has been criticized as being overly generous.

So what happened to all that money that we've been paying in? "By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government. All securities held by the trust funds are "special issues" of the United States Treasury." In other words the money was loaned to the government and put into the hands of our "elected representatives" to use as they please. Strange way to run a "multi-billion dollar business".

Source:
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/ProgData/fundFAQ.html#n2

 

[Ridgerunner]

I believe you missed my point entirely. I don't give booger snot what Social Security was set up for or how it has been misused. I agree we have been lied to a lot about Social Security. They are still doing it. But that is all water under the bridge. It is past history. What do you want Social Security to do from this point forward? How do you pay for it from this point forward? We probably won't agree, but that is fine. My point is that we should be able to talk about it instead of moaning and groaning about the past. The past is ancient history.

The way I would suggest. It should be sort of term insurance. If you have worked and paid into the system you should not have to eat out of a garbage can. Determine what benefits you want to offer. Then set payroll taxes to cover those benefits. I'd really prefer what is paid in this year be the limit to next years benefits. If you want to raise benefits, raise specific payroll taxes to pay for it. If you want to cut those taxes, then you cut benefits the year those taxes cover. Forget the smoke and mirrors approach.

A further complication is that we, through our elected officials, have promised people certain benefits if they pay into the system. Many people have planned their retirement based on having those benefits available. I think we owe those people a certain level of benefits, but change the rules for people that have some time before retirement so they can adjust their savings and plans. Raising retirement age is one way, not next year but say ten years fron now. Getting rid of COLA is another. Reset benefits to what we are willing to pay for. I know I'm being unrealistic, but you need to start somewhere.

Yes, we have been paying a lot more into Social security than was needed for the people that were currently drawing retirement. That excess money was used by the people that we elected to keep our other taxes down while raising our other benefits, whatever those were. Some people warned us about that. Those that warned us did not win elections when they ran for office. Whose fault was that? The ones that won elections or the ones that elected them.

For me personally, I never counted on Social Security for my retirement. My kids did not go top Cancun for spring break. I never did own the biggest baddest TV made. I drive my cars until they need to be replaced, not when a new model comes out.

 

[Ladyhawke1]

Whooyah! I am with OldGuy43. Ya gotta love that Constitution and gotta demand that it principles and laws be upheld for the 99%.

Dear Ridgerunner:

I understand your idealism and it is admirable, may be a very positive factor in your life. However, for the rest of uslife is not a checklist where you can sayI am going to do this, and o'boy, now that I have that done, o'boy on to the next thing.

That is just itLIFE. John Lennon once said.Life is something that happens to you when you are busy making other plans. We all need a safety net and everyone is contributing to them.

WE are all susceptible to the vagaries of life. Life, death, births, marriages, divorces, catastrophic illness, job losses, loss of a home, and nature in her rampages, and last but not least..big business thinking they are too big to fail and running off with our pensions as proof . Some of these things cannot be predicted, or planned. However, some have been forced upon us, and we did not even make a whimper when it happened.until now.

However, if one has ones ear to the ground one would have known the bubble was coming. Now here is where I toot my own horn. Sorry guys, I have to.

In 2007, when I was still working, and having paid attention to those I trust, I made preparations for the coming bust. I only listen to those whom I trust because their information over time proves to be true. I read voraciously, and know this, at least 40% of people in the United States are illiterate and cannot read, and still more are functioning as barely literate .

I shared this information with friends who did not want to take heed to my musings. They were making big money much more than I so what did it matter what poor little me had to say. My well two of my friends have been out of work for over two years now. One whose husband is a big CEO has decided to stay home and be a homemaker. Nothing wrong with that. The other two, one has chosen retirement and now both are being forced to sell their big grand homes. I however am safe, that is until the powers that be figure on a way to take my safety net from me.and believe me my SS is safe for now but those greedy boogers are working every day to try and get their hands on it and put it into the safest of places..the STOCK MARKET. NOT‼‼!

Those listening to FOX, we were told that Social Security was insolvent and blah, di blah. http://www.epi.org/publication/soci...ty_of_income_for_three-fifths_of_americans_a/

http://www.epi.org/publication/social_security_is_sustainable/


FOX and Glenn Beckthe spewers of hatred told us to be afraid very afraid and to make sure to carry a gun that will show em, and we need to blame everyone else but Wall Street and condemn those dirty hippies who are making all that noise in OUR streets. Personally, I think that hatred is not a family value that I aspire to.

FOX was busy telling everyone it is those lousy no good for nothing poor people who do not want to work for a living.and so we must all pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps no matter who we step on doing it. Never mind that it is Rupert Murdock who owns FOX. Just do not look at the real causes for the downed economy. It is better to blame those who cannot fight back. We are to just keep our mouths shut and bail out those banksters.

I am not sure who said it but. You cannot make progress by standing on another mans neck. You cannot move forward doing that. I had rather give someone a hand up.

And excuse me you said that it is all history and that it doesnt matter. OH, yes history does matter. And time after time if you are not paying attention to it..it will repeat itself. Ya all had better fasten your seat belts.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Obviously you need to know what went on in the past, but the point I'm trying to make is point forward. Where do we go from here? The money that went into Social Security in the past is gone. It only exists in the form of IOU's to be payed by future tax payers. That is reality.

We, through the people we voted into government, made promises to people, promises that caused them to plan their future a certain way. While those promises were based on misrepresentation, I think we owe a debt to those that made plans based on those promises. That's why I suggest a gradual weaning from the current process. I'm not real happy that many people spent money that could have and maybe would have been saved if they knew the truth, but that is the world we face. It is as it is, not as we wish it were.

Due to demographics, we appear destined for fewer people to be paying for benefits for more people. Either the total amount we pay goes up, benefits come down, or a combination of the two. I don't have a whole lot of faith that we can come to an agreement as a nation of voters. It is very polarizing to start with and the demogauges on both sides will certainly stir it up for political gain. That's why I said I think what I want to do is unrealistic. But we haved to do something. What are your suggestions?

 

[lighthawk]

I did not vote for a single incumbent in either of the last two elections. Yes I did vote.
You can't tell me that this government can find trillions of dollars to bail out wall street and they can't find a way pay back the money taxpayers paid toward their retirement!
I'd be glad to opt out of social security if they would just give me my money back.

 

[Ladyhawke1]

Obviously you need to know what went on in the past, but the point I'm trying to make is point forward. Where do we go from here? The money that went into Social Security in the past is gone. It only exists in the form of IOU's to be payed by future tax payers. That is reality.

We, through the people we voted into government, made promises to people, promises that caused them to plan their future a certain way. While those promises were based on misrepresentation, I think we owe a debt to those that made plans based on those promises. That's why I suggest a gradual weaning from the current process. I'm not real happy that many people spent money that could have and maybe would have been saved if they knew the truth, but that is the world we face. It is as it is, not as we wish it were.

Due to demographics, we appear destined for fewer people to be paying for benefits for more people. Either the total amount we pay goes up, benefits come down, or a combination of the two. I don't have a whole lot of faith that we can come to an agreement as a nation of voters. It is very polarizing to start with and the demogauges on both sides will certainly stir it up for political gain. That's why I said I think what I want to do is unrealistic. But we haved to do something. What are your suggestions?

With all due respect, I suggest that you do your homework about Social Security.

Social Security is safe until the year 2037 and then with just minor adjustments will live on in good shape. WHY do you think the pirates in Congress and their WALL STREET MASTERS are tying to get their hands on it.

I sent the links to you, but then you would have to read, and I can send them from many, many different qualified and documented sources. Why does one persist in believing the unbelievable from the clowns of disinformation?

Do you know who Bernie Sanders is?

http://sanders.senate.gov/petition/?uid=36ab3bec-a656-4678-82d3-ca7c116b0ee6

This is all I am going to say on this subject. Sometimes people do not want their minds changed. It is too scary. So just believe what you want. And I say this with out anger, and with good will to you..... facts do count and ethics and the history of those speaking them also counts.

One of the perks for reading a lot, is it acts as a hedge against Alzheimer's disease. It stimulates the brain.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Thanks for agreeing to give me the last word. We illiterate old fogeys with Alzheimers appreciate these little kindnesses more than you can yet understand.

Taxes are taken in every year to pay for Social Security, currently payroll taxes deducted by from your paycheck with an additional amount paid by the employer. The caps and the percentage amounts occasionally vary so I won't go into those specifics. The way I look at it, it all comes out of the employer's pocket. The net effect to me if it goes into a paycheck and right back out is zero, but that kind of semantics is important to some people.

Benefits are payed out of these taxes. You can always find different numbers if you search the internet, but my understanding for 2010 is total income was $781.1 billion and expenditures were $712.5 billion, which meant a total net increase in assets of $68.6 billion. You might come up with different numbers. I don't really believe every thing I read on the internet, but I have to start somewhere. You can look at projections for when outgo exceeds income and pick your year. Those are only projections. Tax rates and benefits will change and the number of people paying in and taking out will change.

What happens to that $68.6 billion? It is spent. Free money for politicians. They love that. All they have to do fo that free money is to write an IOU, saying that the US Government will put that money back later. The idea is that the excess is invested in the US Government, in the form of bonds. Those bonds are issued by the full faith and credit of the US Government.

What does full faith and credit of the US Government mean. It means that future tax payers will have to come up with the money to redeem those bonds. Whether that is payroll taxes, income taxes, or something else, it is the future American taxpayers coming up with the money.

If you feel that the Social Security program is funded by those bonds that will have to be paid for by new money paid in by taxpayers, well I'll admit my Alzheimer's brain has trouble grasping that concept.

To better fund the system, wonder why the Government does not just raise the interest rates on those bonds we eventually have to redeem. Wouldn't that fund the system for quite a bit longer?

 

[April Manier]

Don't you think that it is the fed gov't and the corruption there that cuase most of the greif we are feeling. Are they not the ones who put their hand on the bible and swear an oath to the constitution and the people. Are they not the ones who pass these laws that further fleece the middle class. The occupiers are occupying the wrong space.

And as long as others are our focus, nothing will change. Yes there is corruption, but how did they get this power? We gave it to them with our neglectful citizenship. It is time that we do what is right. We need to get educated and involved as much as each of us is capable. And encourage one another!

 

[April Manier]

I agree with old guy, the constitution is a guide for law makers to follow. If they want to write and pass legislation, show in the constitution where it would be legal. For to long they have written laws and twisted the constitution to accept them. We all need to get back to constitutional govt, we have representatives and senators who have been in office for 20-30-40 years and more. How much more better off are we right now with all their experience than we were before they took office. No need to answer just look around.

And in order to challenge these laws and their consitituionality we have to have money for lawyers to do so!

Make a donation if possible to the Civil Liberties Defense Center and let them know your concerns. They champion these causes by rallying lawyers fro pro-bono work.

Vote for those who uphold states rights!

 

[897tgigvib]

Ya know, one way to make social security funds last longer might be if the government allowed an option of trading social security pay for land.