Pressure Cannning

[journey11]

Yes, those are the numbers now, what with the wide dissemination of information regarding proper canning techniques and better medical care available now. Far less people are going about it recklessly than there would have been a hundred years ago. Now those are the numbers you would want to look at to determine the real risk of using Durgan's improper canning method. Take this case from 1931 in which 13 people died from botulism contracted from a single jar of peas. Even if it doesn't kill you, botulism will seriously mess you up. It is an anerobic bacteria and it thrives inside a canned jar because of the lack of air. The spores are commonly present in soil and on fruit/veggie peels and are inactive under oxygenated conditions. Temperatures of 212 degrees won't kill botulism spores.

Most things we discuss on here are subject to opinion, preference or personal experience. This subject however is NOT. Deadly food-bourne illness is not something to take lightly. Pressures and times for home canning have been lab tested for safety and efficacy. Not everything heats through to 240 degrees at the same rate. The heat must be consistent throughout the food, the liquid and the jar for at least 15 minutes. The extra time is to assure that everything is completely heated through to 240 degrees for that period of time. There is no one-size-fits-all. It is irresponsible and dangerous to promote a sloppy canning method on here when someone out there browsing for quick information could read your original post, take it as fact and thereby endanger themselves and their family.

Be stubborn if you want, Durgan, but if you off yourself via botulism, no one here would ever hear about it. For your own personal well-being, I'd beg you to give this some thought.

 

[Durgan]

Assume the extension paper states 15 PSI for 10 minutes. Now pause. First of all, few papers have been researched on the subject and most of the literature on the internet is simply plagiarized information like most gardening books. Some Master student getting a paper out. But with that caveat, I am willing to accept in good faith that all bacteria are killed if the produce is raised to a temperate of 240 F for 15 minutes. Even a Republican cannot sustain those conditions.

It is impossible in an home environment to know whether 240F is reached, so we use an indirect method and hope it works. Faith if you like sort of like believing in the good book. Faith my son, faith. From the number of deaths reported, the risk is about similar to being killed by bungee jumping from a crane at the South Pole.

That said, there is no sense in being dogmatic or stupid about the procedure. Know what you are doing. Use your brain and thinking ability if you have any left, and take appropriate reasonable precautions. Finally, when in doubt go to the supermarket and buy the poison sold there like 99.99 percent of the population does.

 

[MontyJ]

I hardly think my comment about your blog was rude. However,

This was:

"You are throwing in parameters which tend to confuse a non reflecting, non thinking western schooled populace confusing a simple issue."

and this:

"I even posted the method, but one cannot encourage dead minds."

and this:

"Even a Republican cannot sustain those conditions." Considering I am a republican and nobody mentioned any political party affiliations during this discussion.

Also this:

"there is no sense in being dogmatic or stupid about the procedure."

this:

"Use your brain and thinking ability if you have any left,"

and this:

"Finally, when in doubt go to the supermarket and buy the poison sold there like 99.99 percent of the population does."

I'm not going to stoop to throwing insults. I stand by my critique of your "canning" methods. Hopefully anyone coming to this thread looking for information about safe canning procedures will see what has transpired here and move on to another thread or, preferably, post their question. Either way, it works for me.

 

[journey11]

Hopefully they won't just scan and stop at the first post...

Durgan, throw around insults all you want if it makes you feel better. It doesn't change the fact that you are giving out bad advice.

The majority of what you are canning is high-acid foods and dry goods it seems. Neither of those require temps of 240 to sterilize, which would likely explain your good fortune. 212 degrees in a water bath is sufficient for those foods. If you are pressure canning your high-acid foods, that probably explains why you find most canned foods over-cooked. That is over-kill.

Also consider the fact that you are canning juices. Juices are going to heat through more readily than foods that have a chunky or thick texture. Those foods will take a longer time to reach a consistent temperature throughout. Most people do not pressure can high acid foods. Most people also are not likely to be juicing everything. If someone were to pass through here not knowing any better and take your advice, using your method to can green beans--which are one of the foods most likely to be tainted by botulism--then feed those green beans to their family, I'm telling you, they would very likely get sick. Infants and the elderly are most vulnerable would be most likely to lose their life. Does this not bother your conscience in the least?

Also, you are wrong in stating that temperature cannot be assured. Simple physics. As pressure rises, temperature rises along with it at a given rate. They are directly related and if pressure can be established, temperature can be known. (Note: dial-gauge canners are very accurate and should have their pressure readings tested by your county ag agent yearly to confirm accuracy and adjusted if needed). With a jiggler, or bubbler as you call it, you tune your ear to listen for a certain rocking rhythm that occurs once pressure has been reached.

A quart of canned corn requires 1 hour and 25 minutes at 10 lb. pressure. A quart of dried beans requires an hour and a half. A quart of chicken stock also requires an hour and a half. Your 15-20 minutes falls way short of the time needed to reasonably guarantee that all botulism spores have been killed off.

Durgan, you're flat wrong. I'm sorry you can't wrap your brain around that. All of your conspiracy theories aside, all of us who can our own produce do so because we take pride in feeding our families the healthy, hard-earned food we raised ourselves. I would hate to think I was serving them the best, only to make them sick! You've already misled one person on here. I think you need to put a disclaimer (i.e. try this at your own risk) in your original post so that no one is harmed by your ill-advised method. If you do not, I will be notifying a moderator.

 

[Durgan]

Here is how I do my corn. Delicious, and I am willing to take any risk involved. I call my unique process juices but it is really an homogeneous mixture. If you study the process, you will find that 240F is likely reached for the whole homogeneous mixture.

http://www.durgan.org/URL/?ZWVZC 6 August 2012 Corn Juice
Corn is in season now.It is of the highest quality. Cost is six dollars for 14 cobs if you have your own bag. Eighty four cobs were processed into 22 litres of juice.Twenty one litres was pressure canned at 15 PSI for 15 minutes for long term storage and one litre was placed in the refrigerator for current use.Some peppers,okra and egg plant, since they were available from the garden, was added to the cooking pot.Water was added to make the product liquid enough for drinking. Each litre of juice contains 3.8 cobs of corn. Annotated photos depict the process.

About 80% of the corn produce has been consumed and I am still kicking.

Cooking tables mean absolutely nothing unless pains are taken to reach the desired temperate. I am using a practical method that has been proven by experience, and I do not take the method lightly.

 

[Durgan]

http://www.durgan.org/URL/?FUWWT 3 August 2012 Bean and Carrot Juice
Five pounds of beans and three pounds of carrots were processed into juice. Seven litres were pressure canned at 15 PSI for 15 minutes for long term storage.The carrots are finished for this year.Some basil and parsley was added for flavouring.About three litres of water was added for cooking, since beans and carrots have little inherent juice.Photographs depict the essence of the process.

DELICIOUS and NUTRITIONAL

 

[journey11]

Juice.

 

[Durgan]

Juice.

It is simply placed in a glass and swallowed. I call it juice. Simple, quick and nourishing.

 

[journey11]

The parameters of your experiment are too limited. Most people will be canning things other than juice. You cannot verify this procedure as safe for the variety of things that people might otherwise can with it. Again, the reason the time limits were established is to assure that thick or chunky foods are heated through.

If you want to take risks with your own health, that is your prerogative; however it is not right to come on here writing encyclopaedic articles that would encourage people who don't otherwise know any better to engage in such risks.

 

[Smart Red]

"Feel lucky, Punk?"

Sorry, but that's what comes to mind when I read of experimenting with pressure canning.

Me? I'm such a wuss that I even pressure cook my tomatoes. I know Grammas water bath(ed) for a hundred years, but I'm playing it as safe as possible and skipping even the water bath in favor of my pressure canners.

Gotta stick with Journey11 and MontyJ 'cuz when he''s right he's right and in this important gardening topic THEY ARE RIGHT!

As for the rest . . . "I'm biting my tongue!"

Love, Smart Red