Tomatoes&Things
Chillin' In The Garden
Is there anything that will grow in just morning sun and a lot of afternoon shade besides impatient?
Shade annuals
- Thread starter Tomatoes&Things
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patandchickens
Deeply Rooted
Lobelia, if the soil is kept relatively evenly moist (I don't mean to imply lobelia needs an extra lot of water, but it really doesn't Do dry spells well). I highly recommend Crystal Palace in particular, the sapphire color really glows in the shade IMO. Torenia (I forget the common name) is a shade creature too, but I've never grown it myself <shrug>
There are also some fancy foliage plants for shade, their leaves being sufficiently large and brightly colored/patterned as to play the same role that flowers do in a bed. There's Coleus (if you think the old-style pink-green-yellow ones are too pukey looking, and I sure do, be aware that there are lots of other varieties out there if you look around hard enough and some of them are, wonder of wonders, actually fairly attractive. Coleus REALLY can't tolerate dry spells). And Caladium, which comes from a bulb type thing so you can actually dig it up at the end of the season and try to keep it for next year if you are ambitious (it may or may not work, and requires special storage). Personally I think most Caladiums are fairly attractive.
There are a lot of other things, like pansies for instance, that you can 'push' a bit if you are willing to sacrifice a few flowers and deal with them getting a bit stretchier than they would otherwise. And probably some other actual shade annuals too, I am not an annuals kind of person so this is all I know
Edited to add, because I just can't help myself -- why does it have to be annuals, there are LOADS of really nice perennials that would LOVE those conditions, and are just as low-maintenence as annuals (moreso, in many cases, since you only have to plant them 1x)!!! There, I've got it out of my system. But seriously, think about expanding your search to perennials...
Hope this helps,
Pat
There are also some fancy foliage plants for shade, their leaves being sufficiently large and brightly colored/patterned as to play the same role that flowers do in a bed. There's Coleus (if you think the old-style pink-green-yellow ones are too pukey looking, and I sure do, be aware that there are lots of other varieties out there if you look around hard enough and some of them are, wonder of wonders, actually fairly attractive. Coleus REALLY can't tolerate dry spells). And Caladium, which comes from a bulb type thing so you can actually dig it up at the end of the season and try to keep it for next year if you are ambitious (it may or may not work, and requires special storage). Personally I think most Caladiums are fairly attractive.
There are a lot of other things, like pansies for instance, that you can 'push' a bit if you are willing to sacrifice a few flowers and deal with them getting a bit stretchier than they would otherwise. And probably some other actual shade annuals too, I am not an annuals kind of person so this is all I know
Edited to add, because I just can't help myself -- why does it have to be annuals, there are LOADS of really nice perennials that would LOVE those conditions, and are just as low-maintenence as annuals (moreso, in many cases, since you only have to plant them 1x)!!! There, I've got it out of my system. But seriously, think about expanding your search to perennials...
Hope this helps,
Pat
- Thread starter
- #3
Tomatoes&Things
Chillin' In The Garden
Thanks, I guess I'm just more of annual person. What are some good shade perennials though? I guess I just have always thought of perennials as a lot of work. But maybe they are not. I am just doing a smaller garden in the shade. Thanks for the advice.
SewingDiva
Garden Ornament
Hostas are happy in shade, and they come in, jeepers, hundreds of cultivars. Green, blue green, green gold, varigated white, varigated gold, curly, smooth - you name it. White Flower Farm has a hosta collection called "The Emerald Isle" that is a best seller.
One thing I've always wanted to do, and have yet to get around it, is to do a green and white shade garden. Just various hostas, ferns, white Japanense iris, Solomon Seal, white astilbe and white bleeding heart.
~Phyllis
One thing I've always wanted to do, and have yet to get around it, is to do a green and white shade garden. Just various hostas, ferns, white Japanense iris, Solomon Seal, white astilbe and white bleeding heart.
~Phyllis
My favorite is the large blue kind.
digitS'
Garden Master
I like annuals because they can start in a cleanly cultivated bed every Spring 
. Also, I have a small greenhouse and can start plants to fill that bed without spending much $$ every year . Finally, annuals can make that bed bounce with color after a few weeks (especially, if there's adequate sunlight) .
Personally, having morning sun and afternoon shade sounds much better than the reverse, T & T. I'm not sure how much morning sun that may be in your yard . . . . but, there's a chance that such a situation, here at least, would be better than full sun/all day. Many flowers, don't even do all that spectacularly here in the shade because of the dryness of the air. Impatiens will often not bloom real well until we get a few rains in late August.
I also like coleus - there are some very bright choices. Mimulus, monkey flowers, are fun little plants. Torenia are also called wishbone flowers. It's been quite a while since I've grown any of these.
I especially liked having Salpiglossis (painted tongue) but got a little tired of people asking about the "petunias." It does look like its cousin at a distance but is really quite enchanting and different up close.
Snapdragons require less sun than most people realize. And, that is my common choice for a shade annual BUT you can't push snaps too much. Your location should really allow for one-half day of sun (or nearly) so that they don't get too stretched.
I'm sure I've left lots out of this short list . . .
Steve
. Also, I have a small greenhouse and can start plants to fill that bed without spending much $$ every year . Finally, annuals can make that bed bounce with color after a few weeks (especially, if there's adequate sunlight) .Personally, having morning sun and afternoon shade sounds much better than the reverse, T & T. I'm not sure how much morning sun that may be in your yard . . . . but, there's a chance that such a situation, here at least, would be better than full sun/all day. Many flowers, don't even do all that spectacularly here in the shade because of the dryness of the air
. Impatiens will often not bloom real well until we get a few rains in late August. I also like coleus - there are some very bright choices. Mimulus, monkey flowers, are fun little plants. Torenia are also called wishbone flowers. It's been quite a while since I've grown any of these.
I especially liked having Salpiglossis (painted tongue) but got a little tired of people asking about the "petunias." It does look like its cousin at a distance but is really quite enchanting and different up close.
Snapdragons require less sun than most people realize. And, that is my common choice for a shade annual BUT you can't push snaps too much. Your location should really allow for one-half day of sun (or nearly) so that they don't get too stretched.
I'm sure I've left lots out of this short list . . .
Steve
patandchickens
Deeply Rooted
Sure, some perennials are a *bit* of work (I would not say 'a lot' except for a few that require constant deadheading if you want to maintain bloom, and frequent division). But then again, so are annuals unless you have a hired person to prepare your bed and buy the plants in 6-paks
One advantage of perennials is that you do not have to disturb the soil twice yearly! Thus, less weeding. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to cultivate or dig in amendments every year, in a flower bed... you get it in good shape before you start, and then you topdress some compost or any other needed amendments (generally, just compost, and it needn't be *finished* compost) and the worms etc will dig it in for you just fine.
Another advantage of perennials is that they can be cheaper than annuals (esp. if you count the value of your labor). A number of nice perennials come perfectly well from seed; for them, getting 'em started requires no more cost than annuals would, and you only have to start them ONCE And practically everything that doesn't come from seed is propagatable quite nicely from divisions. You start with a very small chunk, either from a neighbor or relative or some nice lady who you struck up a conversation with as you were walking past her house, or you buy a small plant -- sometimes for $0.50 from the 'scratch and dent' rack at the nursery -- and in a few years you have more and bigger
Also, nearly all of the labor involved in perennials (which is not, on the whole, greater than for annuals) can be postponed til convenient times. And with just a TINY bit of trimming in fall, perennials make your garden look interesting and attractive in winter, up til you get 2 ft of snow anyhow.
Let's compare an annual daisy-type thing with Anthemis (which in honesty is not one of the lowest maintenence perennials - it needs cutting back once in spring, and division every 3-4 years). Both will bloom most of the summer, btw.
Annual daisy type thing:
15 min planting seeds
15 min (cumulative) other care while growing indoors
10 min planting out
5 min post-transplanting care for a few weeks
5 min removing in the fall
10 min annual fiddling around with soil.
times the number of years. So over, let's say, 6 years, you've
invested 6 hours plus the price of 6 packets of seed.
Anthemis (a perennial, yellow or pale yellow daisy type thing)
15 min planting seeds
15 min (cumulative) care while growing indoors
10 min planting out
[OR, 1 min buying a single plant for $6.00 at nursery,
5 min taking cuttings
10 min care while rooting
10 min planting out)
5 min post-transplant care for a few weeks
5 min cutting back in spring
5 min hedge-shears or scissors style deadheading, 1x/summer
5 min final haircut at end of season
5 min (less, really) chucking some compost/mulch around 1x/yr
Only the last 4 items are multiplied by the number of yrs.
Then you have 15 min dividing (now you have more plants!)
once every 3 years.
So, over 6 years, you've invested a touch over 3 1/2 hours, plus the price of 1 packet of seeds or 1 plant.
I will be the first to admit that these numbers are pretty madeup and inexact but I will defend their ballpark correctness
The main 'failing' of perennials, from an annual aficionado's viewpoint, is that only a dozen or so common types will bloom for more than 2 months straight (most perennials are more like 2-3 wks), unlike most annuals which can be counted on for 3-4+ months if well cared for. However, you can get a WHOLE BIG LOT more VARIETY in your garden with perennials -- not only variety in color, shape, flower type, foliage type etc, but variety through the year.
The bed in front of my livingroom window, all perennials, flowers yellow in early spring, blue and white (a little yellow) in mid-late spring, mostly blue and purple in early summer; purple, pale yellow and brick red in mid-late summer; and honestly I'm still working on getting fall sorted out, it's kind of a mess right now ;P
I'm not saying everyone should fixate on perennials or that they are somehow globally better than annuals... but I think it is sad how many people shy away from them because of totally erroneous rumors of their expense or difficulty.
Frankly, I like perennials so much because they are inexpensive in the long run, and relatively labor NON intensive
Just stay away from annoying things like coreopsis grandiflora, delphiniums, and anything that has major disease or summer-hardiness problems in your zone.
Whew, there, I feel better now that i got all that off my chest
Pat
Steve, you've been gardening for a while, you should know better than that! =:0
One advantage of perennials is that you do not have to disturb the soil twice yearly! Thus, less weeding. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to cultivate or dig in amendments every year, in a flower bed... you get it in good shape before you start, and then you topdress some compost or any other needed amendments (generally, just compost, and it needn't be *finished* compost) and the worms etc will dig it in for you just fine.
Another advantage of perennials is that they can be cheaper than annuals (esp. if you count the value of your labor). A number of nice perennials come perfectly well from seed; for them, getting 'em started requires no more cost than annuals would, and you only have to start them ONCE
And practically everything that doesn't come from seed is propagatable quite nicely from divisions. You start with a very small chunk, either from a neighbor or relative or some nice lady who you struck up a conversation with as you were walking past her house, or you buy a small plant -- sometimes for $0.50 from the 'scratch and dent' rack at the nursery -- and in a few years you have more and bigger Also, nearly all of the labor involved in perennials (which is not, on the whole, greater than for annuals) can be postponed til convenient times. And with just a TINY bit of trimming in fall, perennials make your garden look interesting and attractive in winter, up til you get 2 ft of snow anyhow.
Let's compare an annual daisy-type thing with Anthemis (which in honesty is not one of the lowest maintenence perennials - it needs cutting back once in spring, and division every 3-4 years). Both will bloom most of the summer, btw.
Annual daisy type thing:
15 min planting seeds
15 min (cumulative) other care while growing indoors
10 min planting out
5 min post-transplanting care for a few weeks
5 min removing in the fall
10 min annual fiddling around with soil.
times the number of years. So over, let's say, 6 years, you've
invested 6 hours plus the price of 6 packets of seed.
Anthemis (a perennial, yellow or pale yellow daisy type thing)
15 min planting seeds
15 min (cumulative) care while growing indoors
10 min planting out
[OR, 1 min buying a single plant for $6.00 at nursery,
5 min taking cuttings
10 min care while rooting
10 min planting out)
5 min post-transplant care for a few weeks
5 min cutting back in spring
5 min hedge-shears or scissors style deadheading, 1x/summer
5 min final haircut at end of season
5 min (less, really) chucking some compost/mulch around 1x/yr
Only the last 4 items are multiplied by the number of yrs.
Then you have 15 min dividing (now you have more plants!)
once every 3 years.
So, over 6 years, you've invested a touch over 3 1/2 hours, plus the price of 1 packet of seeds or 1 plant.
I will be the first to admit that these numbers are pretty madeup and inexact but I will defend their ballpark correctness
The main 'failing' of perennials, from an annual aficionado's viewpoint, is that only a dozen or so common types will bloom for more than 2 months straight (most perennials are more like 2-3 wks), unlike most annuals which can be counted on for 3-4+ months if well cared for. However, you can get a WHOLE BIG LOT more VARIETY in your garden with perennials -- not only variety in color, shape, flower type, foliage type etc, but variety through the year.
The bed in front of my livingroom window, all perennials, flowers yellow in early spring, blue and white (a little yellow) in mid-late spring, mostly blue and purple in early summer; purple, pale yellow and brick red in mid-late summer; and honestly I'm still working on getting fall sorted out, it's kind of a mess right now ;P
I'm not saying everyone should fixate on perennials or that they are somehow globally better than annuals... but I think it is sad how many people shy away from them because of totally erroneous rumors of their expense or difficulty.
Frankly, I like perennials so much because they are inexpensive in the long run, and relatively labor NON intensive
Just stay away from annoying things like coreopsis grandiflora, delphiniums, and anything that has major disease or summer-hardiness problems in your zone.
Whew, there, I feel better now that i got all that off my chest
Pat
digitS'
Garden Master
Good Heavens, Pat, did you see my comments as an attack on perennials or those who grow them?
We don't need to choose perennials or biennials or annuals and stay exclusively with them every year, everywhere in our yards. I can start perennials cheaply in the garden or in the greenhouse but I can start annuals much more cheaply from seed than buying flats of plants at the garden center and by any measure, they are cheap.
As an example, I bought 3 packets of snapdragon seed this year: 3.50 + 1.95 + 3.10 = 8.50. There are now 7 flats with 72 plants in each flat, so that's more than 500 plants. The seed cost for each snapdragon plant was less than 2 cents.
One funny thing about snaps - - they aren't even really annuals. Even here, they may be able to survive Winter against a foundation. One neighbor has a rock the size of a basketball in his yard - I've noticed that a yellow snap survived for the last 3 years beside that rock and I expect that it will be blooming again in a couple of weeks. We can call snaps "bedding plants," I suppose.
Are we deprived of choices with annuals? I don't think so. I notice that Benary (a wholesale seed company) offers nearly 1,000 different choices in bedding plant seed. Mixing and matching, there are infinite combinations. If they aren't all at your garden center, that's a choice they are making in not offering them for sale.
I've got Golden Marguerites (Anthemis) and the longest I can go is every 3 years before the plants must be dug up and quack grass rhizomes patiently removed from their roots. They may even have a bindweed looping thru the bed. Try to find earth-colored bindweed roots among those Anthemis roots. Iris are beautiful but along there in the busiest time of the Summer, I need to pull them up and search out the weeds or they will turn into ugly, weed-infested eyesores after a couple of years. These plants aren't trouble free just because they survive in one place year to year.
The dead top of a perennial is about as attractive as a dead annual during the Winter. Annual beds need not be dug twice a year. Once a year keeps the soil soft. I cultivated a bed of a little more than 100 square feet with a spading fork yesterday in about 30 minutes. I then put over 100 plants in that bed. It would take 3 times as long for a perennial bed even if I'm only doing the work every 3 years.
I said "I like annuals because they can start in a cleanly cultivated bed every Spring. Also, I have a small greenhouse and can start plants to fill that bed without spending much $$ every year"
You feel better, I feel better but I could have done without all this justification for what I have to say.
Steve
We don't need to choose perennials or biennials or annuals and stay exclusively with them every year, everywhere in our yards. I can start perennials cheaply in the garden or in the greenhouse but I can start annuals much more cheaply from seed than buying flats of plants at the garden center and by any measure, they are cheap.
As an example, I bought 3 packets of snapdragon seed this year: 3.50 + 1.95 + 3.10 = 8.50. There are now 7 flats with 72 plants in each flat, so that's more than 500 plants. The seed cost for each snapdragon plant was less than 2 cents.
One funny thing about snaps - - they aren't even really annuals. Even here, they may be able to survive Winter against a foundation. One neighbor has a rock the size of a basketball in his yard - I've noticed that a yellow snap survived for the last 3 years beside that rock and I expect that it will be blooming again in a couple of weeks. We can call snaps "bedding plants," I suppose.
Are we deprived of choices with annuals? I don't think so. I notice that Benary (a wholesale seed company) offers nearly 1,000 different choices in bedding plant seed. Mixing and matching, there are infinite combinations. If they aren't all at your garden center, that's a choice they are making in not offering them for sale.
I've got Golden Marguerites (Anthemis) and the longest I can go is every 3 years before the plants must be dug up and quack grass rhizomes patiently removed from their roots. They may even have a bindweed looping thru the bed. Try to find earth-colored bindweed roots among those Anthemis roots. Iris are beautiful but along there in the busiest time of the Summer, I need to pull them up and search out the weeds or they will turn into ugly, weed-infested eyesores after a couple of years. These plants aren't trouble free just because they survive in one place year to year.
The dead top of a perennial is about as attractive as a dead annual during the Winter. Annual beds need not be dug twice a year. Once a year keeps the soil soft. I cultivated a bed of a little more than 100 square feet with a spading fork yesterday in about 30 minutes. I then put over 100 plants in that bed. It would take 3 times as long for a perennial bed even if I'm only doing the work every 3 years.
I said "I like annuals because they can start in a cleanly cultivated bed every Spring. Also, I have a small greenhouse and can start plants to fill that bed without spending much $$ every year"
When you are in disagreement with something I have written or believe you are in disagreement - - should I really have known "better than that!"
You feel better, I feel better but I could have done without all this justification for what I have to say.
Steve
aquarose
Garden Ornament
Just adding my 2 cents worth. I have gotten to the point where both annuals and perennials are too much work for me. I have decided to gradually work towards shrubs. Something like a hydrangea never needs dividing, blooms well in shade, and once established and big enough, shades out the weeds underneath it. True lazy persons plant. (I still buy a few annuals to fill up empty spots)
patandchickens
Deeply Rooted
Oh my, Steve, I'm really sorry, I honestly meant my "know better than that" comment as a JOKE. I apologize that the intent was not clear. It was not AT ALL meant as a criticism in any way.
The rest of my post was not aimed at you specifically, it was a response to the really common idea (which at least one other post on this thread espoused) that perennials are too much work.
Probably I should have made it its own thread, and not tried to josh around with you.
I won't discuss any of the other points you raise (other than to say that in many areas, Iris are one of the *highest* maintenance perennials!) so's not to offend you further.
Many apologies,
Pat
The rest of my post was not aimed at you specifically, it was a response to the really common idea (which at least one other post on this thread espoused) that perennials are too much work.
Probably I should have made it its own thread, and not tried to josh around with you.
I won't discuss any of the other points you raise (other than to say that in many areas, Iris are one of the *highest* maintenance perennials!) so's not to offend you further.
Many apologies,
Pat
