think Placebos might Work for You?

[digitS']

I've wondered that myself. . .

Just what is it that "helps" some folks who are taking sugar pills but imagine that they must be something else?

I've really gotten myself into trouble with pain pills. There probably never was a time when I was taking a daily anti-inflammatory for more than 6 weeks. God knows that there were months & maybe years when I would have preferred to be taking them on a daily basis. Even without the doc telling me, I knew that my stomach just couldn't handle anti-inflammatories. So, 6 weeks was reckless and I'd cut way back even without having to limp into the MD's office and have him jerk the medicine rug out from under me . . .

Well, I just might not have been "stoic" enuf! Yep, it turns out that stoic patients can benefit from placebos. The things actually prompt the body to make its own painkiller!

They don't call the "non-stoic" a p**s & moaner but you get the idea. Here's the little story: from Scientific American (link).

Steve

 

[so lucky]

Doctors are just now saying that most of the anti-depressants on the market don't really work; that a placebo works just as well. I wonder why they cost so much if they don't work.
Steve, maybe it is time for you to move on to a different kind of pain killer. I have been pi**ed ever since they took Darvon off the market. That was nonsense. It had been taken by millions of people for years, with no side effects. So now docs have to prescribe narcotics, or an NSAID that tears up your stomach.
I have taken Ultram for several years, for RA. Kinda works. I know when I forget to take it, so that demonstrates how well it works, I guess. I lost about 20 lbs when I first started taking it. I did slowly gain it back, tho. Which was a good thing, for me. Not having any padding on my backside was painful in itself, when you drive all day for your job. But I digress......
I think the stoics just have a different personality. The non-stoics probably get better care in the long run, cause the docs don't want to be the object of their ire!

 

[peteyfoozer]

It is actually comforting to see someone else with RA...how much of the gardening are you able to do? IT has reallly made it difficult for me. And what is causing your pain, Steve?
I'm still trying to figure out how to manage things after the onset of all this auto immune stuff I have goin' on.

 

[digitS']

Well, that's it. I was diagnosed with with rheumatoid arthritis when I was in my mid-twenties. Before that, however, I was told that based on x-rays, I had "erosion" in the large joints . . . what did that mean? I just knew that there were weeks each year when it was hard for me to walk. I also had skin rashes that had to be treated in a very aggressive manner so that they were in control.

I can remember being very young, maybe about 7, taking hot baths and my mother having to carry me around. By the time I was about 29, I didn't think I would live much longer. The flair-ups were so frequent that I couldn't reach any kind of normal health before I was sliding back into being sick.

Then, the flare-up became a little more spaced out. . . . further & further apart. Finally, the serious problems just stopped returning - I was into my forties. The damage to the joints, especially in my spine had taken a toll. Four herniated discs, nerve damage, partial paralysis of one leg, etc. - I was kind of a basket case. Surgery was unwise. The other leg has a lot of pain probably because most of the nerves still kind of work . . .

The NSAIDs have been off-limits for about 6 or 7 years. I just started with the most high-tech, you know - the one that was causing heart attacks with some folks, and worked my way down to the oldest, tried & true. I was happy just with naproxen for the last couple of years, taking them a few days each month. I asked the doc about an alternative to the NSAIDs 2 years ago and he had one. I said, "We'll see" but haven't asked him again.

It's okay. I just need to stay somewhat active without any back-breaking labor. I'm on my own speed with garden work even with the marketing. Still, I need to push myself. It won't help to slow to a stop - I might overshoot the mark .

Steve

 

[peteyfoozer]

WOW! You are really an inspiration. I am amazed at all you do, and the size of your gardens. Even just your attitude, I would never have guessed you were dealing with something like this, you are always so postive. It gives me hope that maybe I will reach a point where I can manage better and get more done. I've been on so many pills, steroids, DMARDS, shots of biologicals, nothing has helped. They keep wanting to "UP" it. I don't want to do that. Maybe it will just line out some like you described. Thanks so much for sharing. oh..btw, I don't want a placebo but I think a spa with a gazebo might work out just fine!

 

[so lucky]

I have read that this is the normal course with RA, that the active inflammation and miserable flares eventually die down. But by then the damage is done. However, my mom has had RA for about 40 years--she's 87 now, and still takes methotrexate, infusions of the latest biological med, and at least 3 hydrocodone daily, more on bad days. And she still is in pain most of the time. With all the immune-supressants, she constantly gets infections, but otherwise is healthy enough to live several more painful years. Fortunately for me, my RA is not as severe. My brother who is about 46 is on the biologicals already. And, yes, it does run in families. I hope I haven't passed it on to my kids.

There don't seem to be as many men with RA. Could be they just don't get diagnosed, unless their case is severe.

 

[digitS']

Ack!

I'm learning about new drugs here! Methotrexate is an antifolate.

Wikipedia says that it is a drug that "acts by inhibiting the metabolism of folic acid." I thought folic acid was something that we often don't get enuf of. I'm so confused? This stuff was used in treating auto-immune problems beginning in the 1950's!

Deep breath . . . . . . . anybody got a sugar pill they can spare :/?

Steve

 

[so lucky]

Guess that's why we who take methotrexate are also prescribed folic acid. But, Steve, if you have had RA for years, I'm surprized your doc hasn't had you on methotrexate. It's kinda the first line of defense. It is used in more frequent doses for a cancer treatment, and I think that is what it was first used for. For RA, it is usually a "once a week" dose.

 

[peteyfoozer]

Methotrexate is one of the drugs I am on. They prescribe Folic Acid alongside of it STeve. The good news, I guess, is it is also an anti-cancer drug as so many of the RA drugs run an increased risk of lymphoma. I'm the only one in my family that has this on either side, except for my sister in law, who of course is not biologically related. I always wanted to be like her when I was a kid, she is beautiful and soft spoken and I idolized her. It never occured to me that my prayer would be answered not in being beautiful or soft spoken and wise, but to have the same disease! LOL

So Lucky, so the infusions aren't really addressing your mom's pain? They want to put me on them, but I am not sure we can afford it, as the fuel alone will run us $200 just to show up. I am hoping staying on the current meds and biologic injections will at least inhibit the destructive aspect of this. Pain killers don't work for me for RA pain, although I take them for an old back injury from time to time.

Maybe if it's true that the active inflammation and flares do die down, I can manage without all this scary stuff down the road. The idea of decades of more pain isn't real attractive. However, the fact that this does run in families and only "I" have it, confirms my suspicion that there was a mistake in the hospital and I really belong to someone sinfully wealthy who is desperately looking for me to give me everything I ask for.

 

[Mickey328]

Under the right circumstances, placebos can be as, or even more, effective than the actual drug. It's the strength of the belief that causes the sub conscious to treat and heal the body.

My grandmother had RA and finally started taking meds for it in her mid 70's. One I remember was Voltarin...it was tough for her because she had a really bad sensitivity to medications; she had to be very careful to eat with it or it tore up her stomach.

Thankfully, my arthritis is osteo so I don't get the twisting joints and such but I do get the pain. So far, touch wood, I do pretty well with over the counter naproxyn sodium. I don't usually have to take the full daily dose but it depends a lot on the weather and my activity. A full daily dose would be 6 tablets; I can usually get away with between 2 and 4. I'm also fortunate that, at least so far, it doesn't bother my stomach.

It would certainly be interesting to see if a placebo would work for me with anything. I wouldn't want to attempt with the diabetes meds, and since I'm taking OTC meds for the arthritis, that wouldn't work, but I'd be curious to see if perhaps the antidepressant would work as a placebo. Of course, the problem is that if you know anything about it possibly being one, it definitely won't