TOTALLY solar greenhouse question/ideas.

SKR8PN

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I am in the planning/early building stages of what I hope will be,a totally solar greenhouse. We live in North Central Ohio, and I am going to attempt to grow food year round without adding ANY external heat source for this greenhouse. Here is where I am at so far......
370229368.jpg

The shed was just built and completed with the idea of adding this lean-to greenhouse to this south facing wall. I even set the building on my lot a little off square so THAT wall is facing dead South. You can see the foundation for the greenhouse is set and I also have a concrete pad running the entire length of the South wall of the shed. The shed itself is a pole barn construction with 6 inches of insulation in all the walls, and an insulated ceiling, but NO heat source. The only thing in it is our Kubota and all the attachments for it, and it doesn't need to be warm.:lol:
As far as the construction, I have two 5ft wide sliding glass doors ordered, with plain old glass, none of that tint or no low-e. Those two doors will make up most of the East and West facing walls. The "new" South wall is going to be made up of 8, 34 inch wide, 76 inch tall, thermo-pane panels that are also ordinary clear glass. That wall is going to be leaned back at a 70 degree angle to maximize sun exposure to what will become the North wall of the greenhouse(the wall you see with siding on it). Now....for a heat "source" I acquired 3 pallets full(64 jugs per pallet) of clear,food grade, 5 gallon stack-able jugs with sealed lids and vents. I am going to fill them with a mixture of RV antifreeze and water. They will be stacked 5 high and the stacks will run the full length of the greenhouse,setting on that concrete pad. This will create a giant heat sink that should be warmed enough during the day, to release the heat back into the greenhouse during the night, keeping the soil temp and the plants at a survivable temperature.
This greenhouse is going to be 8ft wide and 24 ft long. The roof is going to be 2x4 rafters set 16 inches on center, with r.13 insulation, covered with 1 inch foil faced foam board on the inside, and rubber membrane for the roof itself. Should be a total of approximately r-20 or better. The remaining portions of the East and West walls will be r-19, and will also be covered with the same foil/foam board.
Now for the question that is stumping me. I plan on digging down beside the foundation and installing 2 inch thick foam board to be used as a frost break, to keep the frozen earth OUTSIDE from sucking the warmth out of the beds on the inside.
Would your place that foam board on the OUTSIDE of the foundation, or on the INSIDE of the foundation? Which do you think would be most effective in keeping heat IN the greenhouse? At this stage I can do it either way with out any difficulty, so don't let that interfere with your thoughts. I am only after the MOST efficient way to keep this thing warm during our cold Ohio winters.
Thanks in advance for your ideas!
 

patandchickens

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If you want your greenhouse to remain above freezing at night, you are just going to HAVE to have some sort of curtains or insulating batts that you roll down over the windows every night. There are pros and cons of having them indoors vs outdoors (I've never heard of any arrangement that doesn't have *some* signficant disadvantages, so it's kind of pick your poison) but you will really, really need them.

I'd seriously consider making the E and W walls solid (no glass doors). The amount of solar gain you'd be foregoing is going to be a lot less than the difference in radiant heat loss from a large single pane of glass vs an R20+ wall. The greenhouse is long enough that you won't be losing much light, esp. if you make the insides of the E and W walls white or foilboard. And you'll keep a lot more heat in.

The two items above will make FAR more difference to your nighttime temperatures than where you put your foundation insulation. However, FWIW, I believe that if the entire foundation mass is to be insulated, you wanna put the insulation on the outside of it; but if a cement block (or other fairly conductive) knee wall will stick up aboveground and nekkid, you want to insulate *inside* of the foundation.

If you can arrange to have your flats/pots/whatever of plants sitting *on* the jugs of antifreeze-and-water, that will also help the plants, by keeping their roots less cold even though the air temperature drops. A nighttime "tent" of fleece or bubblewrap or quilting over top of them would further buffer their temperatures, although obviously the more curtains and quilts and what-all you are having to arrange each night and remove each morning, the more labor-intensive the whole thing gets to be.

If you can arrange some form of forced-air system to take the warm air from the topmost part of the greenhouse and blow it down to the floor and lowest tier of jugs, that will also help somewhat.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat
 

SKR8PN

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Thanks for ideas Pat! The sliders are a done deal since I had to special order them, and I just found out they are on their way. :cool:
One of the reasons I went with thermo-pane insulated vinyl sliders, was so I can also ventilate it and keep it cooler during the summer months. These are Jeld-Wen premium vinyl sliders with an u value of .47, a solar heat gain coefficient (SHGC) of .60 with no grids. The way the greenhouse is situated towards the morning and evening sun, I am hoping for enough solar gain earlier and later in the day, to more than offset any loss through the doors.
Every inside wall that isn't glass is going to be white and/or reflective, with the exception of the jugs. They will be white but the water will be dyed black or as dark as I can get it.

Part of the foundation wall will be above ground, but, the plants aren't going to be in pots. I am putting in, what will basically be, 2 long, raised beds, and plan on planting directly in those. They will cover the foundation wall on the inside up to the bottom portion of the glass wall. Couple of reasons I am doing that is: 1 It will help to protect the plant roots from temperature swings that you would get from pots setting on benches, and, 2 it will also act as thermal mass and help to stabilize temps even more. The walkway between the beds will be flagstone set in sand for even more thermal mass.

I plan on adding reflective foil/foam boards behind the jugs to stop any loss in that direction, and also to use a solar powered fan mounted in the ceiling to circulate the air around the jugs and into the planting areas.
 

lesa

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This is a very interesting idea. Please keep us posted as you go along and let us know your progress. What zone are you in and what are your average winter lows?? What are you planning on growing? Good luck!
 

SKR8PN

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Here is a shot or two of my tinkering so far..... This is the size of the door opening and the angle of the front glass wall, and kinda sorta the roof line.
371253553.jpg

This is about the size of the two beds,the area down the center is to be the walkway. The concrete is going to be trimmed back to almost the width of the jugs. There is going to be more insulation behind those jugs.....
371253554.jpg

The shade you see on the jugs here, is non existent in the winter time.
371253558.jpg

The jug supply.
371253564.jpg



By my calculations.....I will be able to get 27 jugs in a single row. If I stack them 5 high-1 row deep, that gives me 675 gallons of mass. If I go 6 high-one row deep, that will give me 960 gallons. The greenhouse is just under 190 square feet, inside dimensions. Jugs stacked 5 high will yield 3.55 gallons per square foot of floor space, and 6 high will yield just over 5 gallons per square foot of floor space. My goal was to have at least 4 gallons per square foot of floor space, so there is a little room for error, temp-wise.
I am on the border between zone 5 and zone 6 on most hardiness zone maps. We get down to -10 degrees actual temperature once in awhile, and well below that in windchill temperatures. As far as crops, After the fist winter, I will have a better idea what this greenhouse is capable of sustaining, but we should have pretty good luck with most cole crops, and I would LOVE to be able to produce tomato's well into the winter months. We plan on getting a nice start with seedling in the spring as well.

Just so you folks don't think I am some sort of a genius or something, here is a link to where I got most of my ideas and plans for this project.
http://www.survivalplus.com/foods/page0009.htm
 

patandchickens

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Wow, excellent buncha jugs, good score there! :)

Note that the article you're relying on a) recommends that ALL non-south-facing walls be heavily insulated ie. not glass, and b) indicates that a nighttime insulating curtain/blanket/whatever is essential (and it's much harder to retrofit than to design in before the house is *built*, which is why I'm harping on it now - now is the time for you to figure out how to build the greenhouse to maximize your options for nighttime insulating panels)

I'd suggest heavily insulating the outside or inside of your aboveground foundation walls, and running a layer of jugs between that and your planting bed. Timbers are neither so insulating nor so thermal-mass-y as you might hope, and you will freeze the outer rim of your garden space otherwise :)

With tomatoes, can I suggest that you can use the greenhouse to get a *little* more use out of any containergrown tomatoes you have around (or if you containerize some in late August and coddle them til they start growing again), but it's likely to be un-feasible to keep them producing for very long. Whereas you SHOULD be able to use the greenhouse to get an early start on SPRING tomatoes, for which this sort of arrangement is more useful.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat
 

injunjoe

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Looking again I would think saving that slab, paint or stain black to collect heat and use it as a walk way and run the beds the other direction. Looks like most plants would be within arms reach from the slab so less would be lost to paths. They could be more narrow.

Looking forward to seeing this progress!
:pop
 

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