Trees and Soil Update HELP!!!!!!!

[Nyboy]

I just picked up 10 fruit trees for my meadow. The soil is a heavy clay. When I plant flowers I always add some compost to the hole. It seems when planting trees there is 2 trains of thought. First is not to add anything, plant in native soil. The 2nd is to add amendments to the soil. What do you do when planting trees?

 

[thistlebloom]

I just plant in native soil. Amendments can keep a trees roots from leaving the planting hole, staying in the "better" ground and circling.

 

[patandchickens]

I am now a firm believer in "do not amend hole, just loosen soil well", after having seen clear evidence of roots failing to grow out of amended soil (just circling around in amended hole, stunting the plant and then it langishes->dies).

That said, I think it makes alot of difference what your soil is like -- it is probably MOSt important to NOT amend the soil if you have any or all of the following: high water table, very clayey soil, or it's gonna be a good-sized tree. If you have light soil and/or it's never gonna get that big anyhow, an amended hole is less of a problem and *can* show short-term benefits.

Although amending is neutral-to-bad, LOOSENING the soil is still a good thing anywhere, especially on clayey soil.

Pat

 

[lighthawk]

Heavy clay is a bear. I do not recomend adding soil ammendments as it can create a "bathtub" effect and drown out the roots. I once killed an apple tree that way. I added peat and good topsoil thinking it would give it a good start... wrong.
I would (and will as I plan to put in two cherry trees this spring) add a time release fertilizer and try to break up the clumps in the soil as much as possible also try to plant in a well drained area. Preferably on a hillside. Good luck.

 

[vfem]

Yes, plant right in the native soil! We have heavy clay too, and did the same.

When they are dormant in the winter I spread Horse manure around the trees like mulch, and this gives them a boost of nutrients when the spring rains come and they start to wake up.

 

[Nyboy]

7 of the trees planted in soil are not doing well. They have few leaves, that are tiny.Some die back on branches. 3 of the trees I planted in pots with good soil. They are full of leaves!! Is there any way to save the 7 that are planted in the ground? All are getting full sun and same amout of water.

 

[thistlebloom]

I have used liquid kelp with success on trees that were slow to leaf out or lagging for no readily discernible reason. I use it initially as a soil drench, then weekly as a foliar spray. You can also use a low NPK fertilizer, say 5-5-5, that is a slow release organic base.
I'm curious about the locations of the potted vs ground planted trees.
Is it possible that the ones in the ground are exposed to harsher weather? A late freeze when trees are breaking dormancy can do a lot of damage to the new growth, even if the buds have not opened yet.
The trees in the ground are in clay right? Make sure they aren't over watered, clay can hold a lot of water, whereas containers in potting soil will be more porous and drain well.
Let us know how it turns out.

 

[patandchickens]

The "getting the same amount of water" makes me go hm. It seems pretty unlikely that trees in the ground should need the same amount as ones in pots. Without knowing your soil, I won't guess which way the difference is (if they're in clayey soil they may be too wet; if they're in sandy soil they may be too dry), but I'd suggest doing a bit more investigating as to the actual moisture conditions of the planted ones. Actually stick your fingers down in there knuckle-deep and see what the soil is like.

THe other possibility is that the ones you planted sustained significant root damage from the process. That would not be terribly unusual, depending on how you went about planting them and what their history had been. If this is the case you just have to give them time, is all. (This is assuming the potted ones are in the original pots you bought them in... if you repotted THOSE too, and followed fairly similar procedure, it is probably not this explanation)

(e.t.a. -- the other thing is, I keep going back to your first post where you say these are fruit trees and your soil is heavy clay. While there are some fruit trees that like SOME sorts of clay i.e. if the moisture regime is right, are you sure this is really a suitable site FOR those particular trees?)

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[Nyboy]

Thistlebloom good point, we have had a very wet spring here . What is a soil drench? The potted trees are only a few feet away from the others.

 

[thistlebloom]

A soil drench is just the mixture poured in the watering basin. So the potted trees are in the same environment, the only difference being the planting medium? I would suspect too much water at the root zone then.
Are they the same variety of trees?