Weak Sisters

[digitS']

Recently, I spent several hours moving tomato plants from cell packs to 4" pots. Just as earlier, I had moved the young seedlings out of community pots into those cells.

When I moved the seedlings into the cells, I have long been careful to put the smallest in the end rows of the flats. Lined up on the greenhouse bench, those plants are on the outside of the group, receiving the most sunlight. That is, half the time they are. One end, of course, is to the north but all the flats will be moved around what with watering in the basin and such. So, about one half the time those smaller outside plants will be hanging off the bench and bathed in sunlight.

Doesn't help them much . . . Weeks later, those 8 plants are still the smallest out of the 48. It is always true!! Even if they are "extras" and I've put them in their very own pot on the bench, they won't be as large and vigorous as their sisters in the flats.

So that's nurture . . . what about nature? See, here's where I'm wondering if seed maturity may have something to do with it. Honestly, the seed I've saved seem to have far fewer of these "Weak Sisters" than packaged, hybrid seed. What is going on there - I think - is that the saved seed is from 1 fully-mature fruit. I have not been saving seed from cherries the last few years so there's about 15 plums or beefsteaks and there's enuf seed for the dozen or so plants that I intend to grow in each. I'm also careful that the fruit is still available for me to eat after I've finished removing the seed .

I wonder if the seed companies are so careful :/. Look, those tomato blossoms have all been hand pollinated. Dang, time-consuming job, I bet. So, the fruit is all harvested, tossed into large containers, seed is completely mixed from all that fruit and extracted and packaged and shipped off to gardeners. I wouldn't be surprised if I've got 30 seeds from 30 different fruits in my packet.

There's something called "hybrid vigor" and I think I prove that every year that I grow Big Beefs or Sweet 100's or whatever. However, I really think that the number of Weak Sisters in my flats reflect a less-than-careful approach to fruit harvesting . . .

Just something I've been wondering about - seed maturity. You know, you can only concentrate so long on the many roots/one stem/many leaves mantra and having Sam Cooke's "You Send Me" run thru your mind at the potting bench.

Steve
you may be happy to know that i didn't discard 1 Weak Sister from those cells. what i'll do with all of them is a good question . .

 

[thistlebloom]

I spent an afternoon this week potting up my peppers, and noticed the same thing about the vigor of some of them. Even though they were from the same packet.

I thought maybe I had planted some of the seed deeper and the littlest guys had worn themselves out just getting up!

Last years leftover seed had a real poor germination rate. They are in a community container and some of the peppers have been up for two weeks, but this morning I noticed a few of Wenks Yellow Hots are just emerging. I didn't pot this container up since even the first ones up aren't good sized yet.

Guess pepper seed doesn't maintain it's viability too long. :/

I wasn't quite as compassionate with my "weak sisters" as you Steve. I was running low on pots and soil, so I just sort of winced when I tossed them into the chicken scrap container.

 

[digitS']

Thistle',

I didn't say that I didn't toss some that were in the community containers . . . I mean, what can you do with a seed on the end of a stem - no leaves?

My compassion extends to putting them in the compost bucket. Even those that are as small as dog hair. There, they contribute as much to the garden of sisters as a cover crop would.

Steve

 

[silkiechicken]

I always thought that mass produced seeds were just mass collected, mass dired, mass tested/sorted, packaged and sold. If not sold, re-tested/re-sorted, repackaged and sold later if they met some minimum germination rate?

That said, I have found that like most things, you get what you pay for. I found the expensive packet of seeds from Territorial seed had a much much much more even germination, growth, production in their plants than the buck fifty pack I usually get for half off with cupon from fredmeyer... I think they are ed hume? However... I don't have a huge garden now a days, packets often last mulitple seasons, and if I plant 2x as many as I want, I can just cull out the "weak ones"... I am much more ruthless when it comes to survivial of plants.

 

[catjac1975]

I am ruthless in my thinning. I use up left over seed so I over seed the old seed. I over seed all somewhat and yank out the weak.

 

[digitS']

I knew Ruth . . . she was an old softie, Cat.

There is information out there on hybridizing tomatoes, Silkie'. Someone who has "turned against" hybrids in recent years told me that the labor requirements are such that most of the work is no longer done with "high wage" American workers. The parent lines are owned by some corporation, which means that it must at least start off by owning every single seed of the hybrid that is out there.

The tomato flower is "perfect" with male and female parts. And, they are "closed" . . . So, you'd have to stop them from self-pollinating, which would be "normal" for them. "Only then," would the artist's brush, or whatever it is, be brought in for pollination.

You know, with a discussion on "sex," I may have used up my quota of quotation marks.

Steve

 

[vfem]

I would love to say I'm a softy and I care about these little 'suckers' who never get far, alas, I do not. I start very few tomatoes and peppers from seed now a days. If I have something special I can't seem to find locally I'll do just those. Like this year for example. I only started 4 tomato plants and a few basil plants in the house. Locally I'm getting a 4 pack of tomatoes for $1.50 or a whole flat of 48 for $16 (mix and match) so that's what I did this year for peppers and tomatoes.

Once I factor in the cost of those packets of seeds, and my starter mix (+pots), my time actually costs me money! So this year I planted 36 tomatoes and 12 pepper plants. I got my hot thai chilis and my Park's Giant Bell, and since I'm the only one who eats them that's more then enough. However, I've never had more then 20 tomato plants, so I'm just imagining what will be pooring out my ears this summer!

From those 4 I did myself, I put a few seeds in each pot... and only the biggest and strongest got to stay. If they do me no good now, they surely won't be productive enough for me to give them extra space. This of all the nutrients they will suck up and produce so little in return.

It's that just the way of nature... only the strong survive?! :/

 

[silkiechicken]

Ah, didn't think about the hybrid tomato thing. That would be labor intensive.

Locally I'm getting a 4 pack of tomatoes for $1.50 or a whole flat of 48 for $16 (mix and match) so that's what I did this year for peppers and tomatoes.

What a steal on starts! There was a 50% off sale on 5 inch tall tomato plants and they were 1.75 EACH!

 

[vfem]

Yeah as soon as I told my neighbors they drove up and bought them out!

That's why I prefer local mom and pop places. Better then Home Depot and their $3.95 Burpee tomato plants! Sheeeesh, people pay that!?

 

[chris09]

Ah, didn't think about the hybrid tomato thing. That would be labor intensive.

Locally I'm getting a 4 pack of tomatoes for $1.50 or a whole flat of 48 for $16 (mix and match) so that's what I did this year for peppers and tomatoes.

What a steal on starts! There was a 50% off sale on 5 inch tall tomato plants and they were 1.75 EACH!

I can remember my Dad selling a dozen Hybrid vegetable plants for 1.75 and a dozen Non-Hybrid 1.50 a dozen.
But that was about 15 years ago

Chris