A Seed Saver's Garden

[digitS']

I wonder how often decisions on what to grow commercially ,.

. right down to the varieties, are made by food industry executives. They have the contracts for the farmers dangling from their hands.

Very, very few farmers are involved in direct marketing to consumers.

Steve

 

[Zeedman]

I won't argue with you, however Seed Saver's attempts to save every variety of seed that anybody will give them, so as to keep them going.

Sad to say, that is no longer true. That was Kent's policy; even when I only offered a few things, SSE requested a few. They even requested back some seed for a bean I had obtained from them. But after Kent's departure, SSE's accessions policy began to contract. If the accession was in a seed bank, it was returned to that bank, and no longer supported. Their previously extensive collection of horseradishes went that route. Then the emphasis was reduced to only U.S. heirlooms, or varieties which had been circulated for a certain length of time (I think that is 20 years). Many of the accessions Kent collected in Europe and Russia are on the chopping block.

The problem is that just because a variety is in a seed bank - and accessible to breeders - doesn't mean it is accessible to gardeners. Seed banks are also subject to war or bureaucratic ineptitude, so there is no long-term guarantee of safety for seeds stored there. For a good example of that, read the history of the Vavilov Institute, where some of the scientists protecting the seeds during WW2 died of starvation rather than eat the collection.

I have a fair number of unique offerings which I hope to add to SSE, if I can live long enough to meet their selection criteria.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Another problem, of course, is the amount of money you have to expend not just to maintain the collection, but also regenerate it. That requires a lot of people with a lot of space, many of whom may need to be partially, if not totally, compensated for growing that instead of something else. In an large enough seed collection, there will be types that few, if any, people want to grow voluntarily (however much I want to do a Monty Python parody and start singing "Every Seed is Sacred", the plain and simple fact is that some varieties fall out of favor for good reason) and so you'll probably have to pay some one to regenerate them.

And there IS the problem that the whole thing is voluntary. Nearly every person these days who decides to grow heirlooms does so ultimately voluntarily, and that is probably how it is going to stay. We can ENCOURAGE and EDUCATE other people to try and pick heirlooms over hybrids, but we can't FORCE them to. At least, not and still be at all ethical (it would be like that situation I mentioned in an earlier thread, of going to a struggling farmer who lives on the constant edge of starvation and telling him me HAS to keep using the same seed and techniques he and his ancestors have always used rather than try something else, because maintaining the varieties on their original land is far more important that him feeding himself and his family adequately (And before someone brings it up, while I appreciate the value of a crop that has adapted itself to the local environment, I do NOT think that such a crop is ipso facto ALWAYS the absolutely best version that that area can have. Sometimes, new actually IS better.)

 

[heirloomgal]

I Think if you are ordering from a reputable seed company, Like High Mowing, or even Burpees, and the quantity is low, $price is high/seed, you will probably be ok.
I feel badly that I didn't know that my GF's 35yo tomato seeds sprouted, and I found them sprouted/dead bc they had needed watering. He had perfected his tomatoes for 50 years.
Still, I was pretty sure that similar tomatoes were out there.
I think we should save our seeds, support the Seed Savers exchange and others:

Home - SeedSavers

Since 1975, Seed Savers Exchange has worked to keep heirloom seeds where they belong, in our gardens and on our tables.

www.seedsavers.org

plus

Home - The Livestock Conservancy

Our mission is to protect America's endangered livestock and poultry breeds from extinction. Many of America’s once-common farm animals face extinction if we do not take action now.

livestockconservancy.org

The key is diversity. As was explained to me recently, grocery store produce/meat has been hybridized to the point of something like the 30th hybrid of the original.
If that dies off bc of disease or inbreeding, it is lost.
The only remedy is to go to heirloom (plants/seeds) and heritage (livestock.)
THAT is why it is a very good idea to keep both alive and in as large numbers as possible (for some genetic diversity among same.)
Heirlooms can be crossed with heirlooms IF necessary in the future.
Even odd "duck" plants/livestock are worth keeping around for the future.
WE can be part of that movement.

 

[heirloomgal]

Went out today to a few different greenhouses and was surprised to see how much the price of annual flowers and vegetables has jumped. Hot peppers were $5 each and those galaxy petunias (purple with white speckles all over the petals) were $7.50 - per single 4" pot, which appeared to contain one plant only. Wow. One ground cherry plant - which I bought because I, meh, forgot to plant some seeds - was $5 too. I can understand that the price went up as the demand for gardening supplies has, but we are 3 years into the gardening/seed/plant craze and surely now that travelling is possible again you'd think the price would go down a little, not up a lot.

Well, aside from all that I got some lupini beans planted in starter pots, Ethiopian legumes, White African sorghum, some lettuce, some heirloom marigolds. I'm a teeny bit worried because the grey weather will be back, so I hear, and I don't want more things getting lanky in pots while the sun hides. But I'd rather struggle with that than be late in getting seeds in to the ground.

Felt so great to be in the greenhouse puttering again, enjoying some sunny weather. Just magic. I love to blast Barbara, the singer from France, on the CD player while I work in there. Something about her voice is just so right for gardening. (I avoid the melodramatic songs though, not very cheery.) I think gardening is just the most wonderful hobby in the world!

Couple photos from today's adventures.

Ironically, despite the huge price increases one greenhouse had a trolley with a 'free plants' sign. This was one of the plants on there, along with many others. Never heard of it, but I liked the bright cheery orange colour. A few blooms were spent. The price tag said $27.99!

Last of my Job's Tears seeds planted - if these babies don't sprout I'm all out of luck. That would be the 3rd year strike out to get these going. Only 1 in 4 Might be time to give up otherwise, or is there a metaphor hidden in there somewhere?

Learned something about the growth habits of peppers this year. Each seems to have a speed setting for growth which is not affected by growing conditions. Some peppers can grow for months indoors and be full of lush growth the whole way along, growing at a moderate speed. Purple UFO and Count Dracula hot peppers fit that description. The Thunder Mountain hot peppers I planted are not those. These grew so aggressively so quickly and got so big that they are starting to burn out now, they actually look terrible. I can only rely at this point on peppers being perennial in their native habitats and therefore capable of springing back to life after a spell of 'rest'. Oddly, all of the Thunder Mountain peppers keep getting one aggressive branch that the other branches won't compete with it. These are Piazinhos, fabulous hot pepper, lots of taste not just heat

I had to pinch it back, but not much, it got gnats, but didn't die, and the growth is pretty balanced. Same with the 'Lemon Starrburst' peppers. Slow, steady growth.

Not sure what these little flowers are, but for this time of year they sure are appreciated. Not a single tulip or daffodil has bloomed yet.

 

[flowerbug]

the blue plants in the 3rd and 2nd to the last pictures look like hyacinths to me. beautiful ones.

we've had daffodils out for a week or more now and more coming as i do have a selection of varieties so there is more bloom time overall for them. tulips are just now starting up to bloom.

 

[heirloomgal]

Another problem, of course, is the amount of money you have to expend not just to maintain the collection, but also regenerate it. That requires a lot of people with a lot of space, many of whom may need to be partially, if not totally, compensated for growing that instead of something else. In an large enough seed collection, there will be types that few, if any, people want to grow voluntarily (however much I want to do a Monty Python parody and start singing "Every Seed is Sacred", the plain and simple fact is that some varieties fall out of favor for good reason) and so you'll probably have to pay some one to regenerate them.

And there IS the problem that the whole thing is voluntary. Nearly every person these days who decides to grow heirlooms does so ultimately voluntarily, and that is probably how it is going to stay. We can ENCOURAGE and EDUCATE other people to try and pick heirlooms over hybrids, but we can't FORCE them to. At least, not and still be at all ethical (it would be like that situation I mentioned in an earlier thread, of going to a struggling farmer who lives on the constant edge of starvation and telling him me HAS to keep using the same seed and techniques he and his ancestors have always used rather than try something else, because maintaining the varieties on their original land is far more important that him feeding himself and his family adequately (And before someone brings it up, while I appreciate the value of a crop that has adapted itself to the local environment, I do NOT think that such a crop is ipso facto ALWAYS the absolutely best version that that area can have. Sometimes, new actually IS better.)

I've not yet heard of a situation in which people were forced into saving seeds, though I guess the situation in both Russia and China years ago (when there was mass starvation under Mao and Stalin) could qualify to some degree when farmers were forced to grow food, grains, of the governments' choosing and then hand it all over without being able to have any for themselves or their families.

I think though, in terms of contemporary seed saving, it's much more likely that if an extreme situation arises again it will be the reverse, people will be prevented or forbidden from saving seeds, and forces to eliminate legal mobility for seeds (for citizen gardeners) may be put into place. That is already underway and has been for quite some time. It's a huge topic to unpack. It's not looking good for sure.

I like to save seeds that will breed true, simply because to me OP seeds are freedom. I'm not reliant any any commercial enterprise for a variety I like, or worried that my favourite hybrid variety will disappear. It's a kind of independence. I do also like to pay homage to the selecting and breeding efforts of the people and generations before me, all the work they invested - collectively or independently - in those various varieties. I do enjoy the idea of helping to preserve their work for future generations.

There does also appear to be increasing reason to feel concerned about future food supply issues. Seeds that we can provide for ourselves would be important in a situation like that. Being inherently valuable, like water, their value is not as subject to manipulation as the fiat currency. It has been very interesting over the last 3 years to see the shifts in market forces in regards to all this.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

I've not yet heard of a situation in which people were forced into saving seeds, though I guess the situation in both Russia and China years ago (when there was mass starvation under Mao and Stalin) could qualify to some degree when farmers were forced to grow food, grains, of the governments' choosing and then hand it all over without being able to have any for themselves or their families.

I think though, in terms of contemporary seed saving, it's much more likely that if an extreme situation arises again it will be the reverse, people will be prevented or forbidden from saving seeds, and forces to eliminate legal mobility for seeds (for citizen gardeners) may be put into place. That is already underway and has been for quite some time. It's a huge topic to unpack. It's not looking good for sure.

I like to save seeds that will breed true, simply because to me OP seeds are freedom. I'm not reliant any any commercial enterprise for a variety I like, or worried that my favourite hybrid variety will disappear. It's a kind of independence. I do also like to pay homage to the selecting and breeding efforts of the people and generations before me, all the work they invested - collectively or independently - in those various varieties. I do enjoy the idea of helping to preserve their work for future generations.

There does also appear to be increasing reason to feel concerned about future food supply issues. Seeds that we can provide for ourselves would be important in a situation like that. Being inherently valuable, like water, their value is not as subject to manipulation as the fiat currency. It has been very interesting over the last 3 years to see the shifts in market forces in regards to all this.

Well, actually, something like that DID sort of happen in Russia, in that, when the collectivized the farms, they often DID specify what type of what vegetables could be planted, so as to maximize productivity. It's just that, at the time, OP crops were still the norm, so OP crops were what the farms used. And, of course Russia had the Vavilov institute and its breeding and seed exploration programs to back things up, so that actually worked out OK, in terms of food production (the famine there had more to do with redistribution than any actual crop failure.) China in the Great Leap Forward, of course, was a mess.

I also sometimes wonder if, in an effort to maintain as much of a stranglehold as they can on food production, some company might, should the get enough power, try something REALLY outrageous, like not only banning personal saving and growing seed, but then deciding that the best way to keep their own lines "pure" is to actively wipe out the natural and wild populations of those plants and their ancestors from the face of the Earth. Given how alarming the current rate of extinction is going with most of it just being accidental, I SHUDDER to imagine how it would look if there were major groups out there actually TRYING to wipe out all the wildlife on Earth, or if the corporate world becomes not only the only source for vegetable seed and such, but the only source for ANYTHING.

As for the seed value thing, I've already mentioned the person on the other site who rejects fiat currency and demands his seeds be paid for in silver. Personally, I think HE'S probably being a little short sighted, since, if the situation ever got bad enough, even precious metals would not be worth much. It's an irony of the process, but the fact is that, as you search for a medium of exchange that is better at things like portability durability and a stable value (which is pretty much why we have money in the first place) you tend to move farther and farther away from something that, in the absence of other people to trade with, is actually GOOD for anything. About the closest I can think of for something that can actually meet those needs are the Masai and their Cattle based economy, and whatever African tribe it was that used to use blocks of salt for money (and I seem to recall some group in the Russia/Northeast Asia area that used bricks of tea).

 

[heirloomgal]

Well, actually, something like that DID sort of happen in Russia,

The Holdomor & China's Great Famine was what I was referring to above, just as you described, I guess I was a bit vague in my wording.

As for the seed value thing, I've already mentioned the person on the other site who rejects fiat currency and demands his seeds be paid for in silver. Personally, I think HE'S probably being a little short sighted, since, if the situation ever got bad enough, even precious metals would not be worth much.

I agree @Pulsegleaner, to a point. In the case of calamity gold or silver would be of no immediate use if value becomes a question of meeting material physical needs. Representative value items like gold & silver, though, may still maintain some people's trust; like currency they too are speculative and tied to perception. I can see why this fellow you describe is trying to avoid the dollar, and why bitcoin and crypto is booming. On the one hand it's great, people see the debasement of the financial system and want independence from it. I think it's a question of getting on a standard of exchange that isn't being regulated/maneuvered, in particular by those perceived as villainous.

I also sometimes wonder if, in an effort to maintain as much of a stranglehold as they can on food production, some company might, should the get enough power, try something REALLY outrageous, like not only banning personal saving and growing seed,

Reading this was quite chilling because you outline a perfect auspice under which saving seeds could conceivably be 'legally' forbidden. I had thought a little here and there about it, how they might go about justifying that kind of 'mandate' and pacify the resistant. It would be done for 'the greater good' to protect such and such, fill in the blank. Not likely they could pull it off in the name of a separate corporate interest, but to claim it is in the best interest of 'the food supply' for all - say in the case of nationalising food production due to independent commercial shortages/issues. Plausibly they could claim independent seed savers/planters endanger their carefully managed lines, lines they will 'need to protect' to feed the population. Even now, OP seeds are often considered (wrongly I think) to be vectors of disease. Scary, like the worst sci-fi. Though realistically, some of this is already underway and has been for some time.

 

[heirloomgal]

Not sure I'll get to planting these beans I purchased, but thought I'd post some pictures for the bean lovers out there. A couple I can't tell if that is just how the bean is coloured, or if the bean is not the best quality?

You never know when some of these wee companies that suddenly appear might disappear (as they seem to do), so I thought I'd order these just in case I couldn't find them next year. The company was in Quebec so titles I've written as they appear on packets.

Soya Ezonishiki

Haricot Metis tigre rouge et blanc
(don't know how to put those little accents for the e's on Metis and tigre)

Haricot Harwig's heirloom Belgium, does not look as much like a navy bean as I thought - a little bigger and shinier. Can barely read the packet, but I think it's actually a variety for eating as green bean.

Haricot Inca Pea

Haricot Selma zebre (accent on the e again)