2025 Little Easy Bean Network - Growers Of The Future Will Be Glad We Saved

oxbow farm said:
But any visible variations would only show up the year AFTER the original cross.
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So I'm safe to assume that the Avalon seed I planted was F1 since these variations are appearing now?

Million Bells said:
The second one looks like the reversed colors, instead of different genetics.
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I agree. The only difference is that the seed in the second picture all came from pods that were completely purple and I will plant them separately next year to see if the purple pods carry to the next generation.
 
Also I may have been mistaken about Avalon being a pole variety as the pods bearing the blue/black seed are the ones choking my tomatoes and reaching out to the fence. All of the striped seed were harvested at bush height and when I attempted to go through the tangle of vines, there's one plant that could possibly be a bush but the vines of the others grew so fast and intermingled. @Blue-Jay suggested I sample a few pods to test for tenderness and the first ones were tender, but the ones I sampled later were a bit tougher even though they were the same size as the first ones. I do remember those beans came from the ones that were vining.

Here's a picture of the original seed I have left. Wondering if I started with the two striped varieties?

IMG_20250918_124440.jpg
 
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ruralmamma said:
So I'm safe to assume that the Avalon seed I planted was F1 since these variations are appearing now?


I agree. The only difference is that the seed in the second picture all came from pods that were completely purple and I will plant them separately next year to see if the purple pods carry to the next generation.
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It seems safe to assume that SOME of the Avalon you planted was F1, since you are seeing multiple different colors and shapes. But even in a single pod that contains a cross, it isn't likely that ALL the seeds are necessarily crosses, because the bean would also have been exposed to its own pollen. If the seed you had was collected from several plants and several pods, the majority of it should still be Avalon.
 
ruralmamma said:
...
If anyone can recommend a book or website that would delve a bit into bean genetics for dummies, I'd appreciate it.
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as an example search out the pictures i've posted here in TEG about a bean i called Monster. :) it came to me via Dapple Grey from @Blue-Jay 's network or his other pages and when i planted those one plant spun off Monster, most of what i replanted from Monster spun off different bean lines which some of them were stable but i did not do all of them because there were so many i'd need several acres to do all the plantings and selections. i've had some other beans do the same sort of thing.

the general pattern is that you get a very strong growing plant that produces a heavy crop and then the various plantings from those may not give great results but you may find a few lines that work.

i also had another bean i called Dominoes that did the same. dozens of variations.

Dapple Grey that spun off Monster and then some replantings of Monster gave back variations upon Dapple Grey too.

Almost all of those beans are now gone from my collection because i don't have the space for so many projects and there are other projects i wanted to work on than stableizing yet more beans. :) it's fun, i'd need many miles square to do all the projects and of course a lot of minions... lots and lots... :)

oh, and while i'm thinking of it, Monster had a very unique seed coat color that laid over everything underneath that was kind of metallic looking to me - a part of the reason why i called it Monster.

as for variations and complications and genetics, the more recessive genes involved the more variations you will get when they combine with another bean that also has a lot of recessives. mix a few dominant beans in there and you get utter mayhem. :) none of it is beyond science and math, but it may take some time to sort it out as to the details. which is why i'd love to have a complete genetic sequence of every bean i've grown... (and then there are conversations that could be had about what the cells themselves might contribute beyond the genes too :) )...
 
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ruralmamma said:
...If anyone can recommend a book or website that would delve a bit into bean genetics for dummies, I'd appreciate it.
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ok, my other post i just put up gives some explanations, but beyond the chances of crosses there are also things called mutations... that is what happens when the genes or other components of the cell are affected by radiation or some other event in the various processes and sometimes those processes involve the genes which are involved in reproduction and those can be passed along to offspring. sometimes the changes have no effect, a bad effect or a good one. sometimes such changes can be latent and not noticeable until conditions change and then they can be observed and studied.
 
ruralmamma said:
is is Avalon and the seed I've harvested from it. All pods have been striped and curled.
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So it looks like you have gotten two off type seeds from Avalon. The first person to grow Avalon did not mention any off types. So if a cross does occur you won't know it until you grow crossed seed the next season. It is my understandind that depending on all the genes the two parents contain. If a cross occurs the F2 can display all sorts of combinations depending on the gene pairs that were made. Avalon is a bean the is still a work in progress. You can select the seed that Avalon creates and grow them again to see if Avalon Stabalizes. I will still take 60 seeds that look like the original Avalon seed you were sent.
 
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