A Seed Saver's Garden

[heirloomgal]

Even THAT doesn't necessarily save you. I speak as one of the suckers who got caught up in Tomatofest's "Marianna's Peace" scam.

Oh and if the Tiger Nuts work out for you and you want to diversify, Jibril sells the black variety.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1041257548/black-tiger-nutscyperus-esculentus-300g?click_key=ee55063e94a2293ae18ced3205c948b5d7388fcd:1041257548&click_sum=b1cfc2ea&ref=shop_home_active_55&frs=1

What is the "Marianna's Peace" scam?

 

[Pulsegleaner]

What is the "Marianna's Peace" scam?

Basically, about twenty years ago (I think, since I was still in college). Tomatofest offered seed for a pink red tomato called "Marianna's Peace", for something like $24 for 10 or so seeds. They accompanied it with a long and involved story about the seeds being brought in by a young girl escaping the Nazis in WWII, with these tomato seeds her only remnant of home. A lot of people (me included) fell for it and ordered the seeds. What we quickly realized, of course was 1. It wasn't actually all that good of a tomato and, more obviously, by the very nature of tomatoes, ANY seed scarcity (and hence, justification for the high price) would literally EVAPORATE by the following year, so by then the same seed would be dirt cheap. Tomatofest made a lot of money, and people like us were stuck with crappy overpriced tomato seed.

 

[heirloomgal]

there are two plants with the same common name. one type is the edible you've mentioned and may not survive cold winters, i got sidetracked by seeing the name and knowing how bad a weed it is and how invasive it is here (where it survives our winters without a hitch). the weedy invasive is a royal PITA. by contrast the chufa may be interesting but i'm not sure it would be worth fighting the mostly clay soils here to even attempt.

We don't have these plants here in any form that I'm aware of. I've never seen them. I have a feeling that chufa nuts are being classed in with another related grass, but they aren't actually the same growing culture. The chufas are as big as small peanuts and I haven't seen any yellow nutsedge tubers look that big, they actually look rather small.

I was also thinking, chufa nuts are more or less a European food plant at this point, popular in many countries over there, including Ireland. Given their rather moderate climate you'd think if they were invasive, they would have major problems with them. They don't seem to.

 

[heirloomgal]

Just got my package of seeds from Trade Winds Fruit, and I now have conformation that, as they said when I ordered them, their mixed Bambarra Groundnuts actually DO have black ones, so I FINALLY have a source! (why it's taken so long is beyond me, maybe black is a very rare color).

Bambarra Groundnuts = edible?

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Bambarra Groundnuts = edible?

Yes, they are.

 

[ducks4you]

I Think if you are ordering from a reputable seed company, Like High Mowing, or even Burpees, and the quantity is low, $price is high/seed, you will probably be ok.
I feel badly that I didn't know that my GF's 35yo tomato seeds sprouted, and I found them sprouted/dead bc they had needed watering. He had perfected his tomatoes for 50 years.
Still, I was pretty sure that similar tomatoes were out there.
I think we should save our seeds, support the Seed Savers exchange and others:

Home - SeedSavers

Since 1975, Seed Savers Exchange has worked to keep heirloom seeds where they belong, in our gardens and on our tables.

www.seedsavers.org

plus

Home - The Livestock Conservancy

Our mission is to protect America's endangered livestock and poultry breeds from extinction. Many of America’s once-common farm animals face extinction if we do not take action now.

livestockconservancy.org

The key is diversity. As was explained to me recently, grocery store produce/meat has been hybridized to the point of something like the 30th hybrid of the original.
If that dies off bc of disease or inbreeding, it is lost.
The only remedy is to go to heirloom (plants/seeds) and heritage (livestock.)
THAT is why it is a very good idea to keep both alive and in as large numbers as possible (for some genetic diversity among same.)
Heirlooms can be crossed with heirlooms IF necessary in the future.
Even odd "duck" plants/livestock are worth keeping around for the future.
WE can be part of that movement.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

The only remedy is to go to heirloom (plants/seeds) and heritage (livestock.)
THAT is why it is a very good idea to keep both alive and in as large numbers as possible (for some genetic diversity among same.)
Heirlooms can be crossed with heirlooms IF necessary in the future.
Even odd "duck" plants/livestock are worth keeping around for the future.
WE can be part of that movement.

I agree with you in theory, however, in the name of practicality, there needs to be some balance. After all, it you take that idea to its logical extreme, you would have to save EVERY SEED of EVERY plant, since ANY one of them COULD have some new mutation or genetic combination. And if you have to SAVE everything, the primary reason for growing most stuff (to be able to use it) sort of falls away, as does any way to recoup whatever expenditures you made to do so (I mean, who would be a farmer if you could not eat or sell ANYTHING you grew.)

 

[digitS']

Still, I was pretty sure that similar tomatoes were out there.

I am a layman on this subject but I'm pretty sure that you are right and pretty sure that my Grandmother Pearl's tomatoes are Porters .

Dad's youngest brother gave me the seed about 30 years ago. He said that their mother had them through the Great Depression and called them, "the Peddler's Tomato."

Okay, they aren't my favorite tomato but I've grown them every year, DW likes them (very mild flavor). After the first few years, I ran onto a description of Porters and ordered some seed. The first year that I grew them side-by-side, the only thing that seemed different was, maybe, the foliage. The second year, I gave up on that notion and decided that they were the same.

Funny thing, I asked my uncle if he would like to see some pictures and try the two in his garden. He said, "NO!" You can imagine that he had an emotional reason for that . I think many gardeners and heirloom enthusiasts have emotions involved in their efforts. More Power to Them !

Why would Grandma Pearl have Porters? Or, more to the question, why would the Peddler have Porters? Heck's Fire, Grandma Pearl lived within 300 miles of the Porter Seed Company (founded in 1912) during the early years of the 20th Century. When they moved to New Mexico, just before the Depression, she was within a stone's throw of the Texas border. Would it be surprising if the peddler was selling Texas seed?

I don't know if I "perfected" the plants that I have grown for several decades. For one thing, I grow only a very few of them each year. How much of a selection for quality can I make? Once, I declined to save seed from some of that year's plants and threw out the seed that I had used. I could do that because I save multiple years' seed for Grandma Pearls and I just shifted back to older seed for the next year's plants. THAT is about the best that I could do.

Steve

 

[Zeedman]

The key is diversity. As was explained to me recently, grocery store produce/meat has been hybridized to the point of something like the 30th hybrid of the original.
If that dies off bc of disease or inbreeding, it is lost.
The only remedy is to go to heirloom (plants/seeds) and heritage (livestock.)
THAT is why it is a very good idea to keep both alive and in as large numbers as possible (for some genetic diversity among same.)
Heirlooms can be crossed with heirlooms IF necessary in the future.
Even odd "duck" plants/livestock are worth keeping around for the future.
WE can be part of that movement.

I agree with you in theory, however, in the name of practicality, there needs to be some balance. After all, it you take that idea to its logical extreme, you would have to save EVERY SEED of EVERY plant, since ANY one of them COULD have some new mutation or genetic combination. And if you have to SAVE everything, the primary reason for growing most stuff (to be able to use it) sort of falls away, as does any way to recoup whatever expenditures you made to do so (I mean, who would be a farmer if you could not eat or sell ANYTHING you grew.)

Maintaining and promoting diversity doesn't have to be difficult. It can simply be a matter of replacing a commercial variety with a good heirloom equivalent. Finding that replacement can actually be part of the fun. I've sort of cheated in that regard, since SSE's farm is only about a 4 hour drive... I can observe potential candidates in their preservation grow outs, then look for seed. At that point, I've already evaluated vigor & productivity, so all I am testing in my trial is culinary qualities. Haven't made it down to SSE the last few years, but the observations from every trip led to several more "keepers".

The seed saving itself requires some learning & practice, and some species are more difficult than others to save pure seed from. But even an inexperienced seed saver, with a small garden, can easily save reasonably pure seed for 4-5 varieties per year (even more if different varieties are grown in rotation). For the most easily saved seeds (legumes and nightshades) population size is a minimal issue, since those are inbreeding, self-pollinated plants. They may in fact have been as heavily selected as the commercial varieties they replace - just for different traits. Gardeners & commercial growers tend to view vegetables from different perspectives... say, suitability for shipping vs. flavor. To me, flavor is paramount.

If one seriously desires to preserve whatever diversity may be present, that just involves saving 1-2 fruits per plant, making an effort to grow as much of the original seed as possible before it dies in storage, and mixing together all of the saved seed. That still leaves PLENTY to eat, after the few fruits per plant set aside for seed. The preservation process is shortened if others also grow part of the original seed, and all of it is mixed together; but that does come with an increased risk of cross pollination contaminating the line. Provided that all seed lots are properly stored (preferably frozen) the process is then repeated year after year with the mixed seed, until it is passed down to the next generation.

 

[ducks4you]

I agree with you in theory, however, in the name of practicality, there needs to be some balance. After all, it you take that idea to its logical extreme, you would have to save EVERY SEED of EVERY plant, since ANY one of them COULD have some new mutation or genetic combination. And if you have to SAVE everything, the primary reason for growing most stuff (to be able to use it) sort of falls away, as does any way to recoup whatever expenditures you made to do so (I mean, who would be a farmer if you could not eat or sell ANYTHING you grew.)

I won't argue with you, however Seed Saver's attempts to save every variety of seed that anybody will give them, so as to keep them going.
If we ever have a crises, we may need them.
Today, however, the Bigger crises is a chemical fertilizer shortage bc too many farmers use this shortcut. IMHO, they should be amending their soil by:
1) harvesting manure from livestock feedlots
2) baling and putting out lousy hay, even hay that has been rained on
3) laying down ANY not noxious vegetation in the off season, so it will decompose and fertilize for the next year
AND
5 to 7 crops Always in rotation.
If costs get too high, I assure you we will see a change in agriculture.