A Seed Saver's Garden

[heirloomgal]

If you're asking about the asparagus peas, I can't help you, I haven't tried to grow those in DECADES (as I don't like the taste of asparagus, why would I?"

If you are asking about the Picotee Morning Glories, I can't help you much there either. I DID grow those about four or five years ago, using seed I had picked out of my beans (it's common enough to be a field weed in Asia), but I didn't actually DO much with regards to assisting them in any way; they seemed to do fine all on their own.

I meant the RP morning glories. For some reason I thought you grew those, my mistake. Have you eaten asparagus peas? From what I read they don't really taste like asparagus, @Zeedman have you tried them? Sort of like the Jerusalem Artichokes that don't really taste like artichokes I guess. Lol (Not from there either!)

 

[heirloomgal]

My first cucamelons are rolling in and geez they're better than I remember them. I have probably always waited too long to eat them, at this small aize the texture is lovely and the crunchy taste is pretty cucumber-y. They have a similar growing habit to the gherkins in that they are rather vigorous. My guess is both will be tougher than the true cucumbers and need less fertility. I likely gave the cucamelons too small a tower to climb because they're all over the place now that they've reached the top.

The 'Feuille De Chene' lettuce bolted. Guess that was an early one! But we did enjoy it while it lasted, great taste. Bush beans have some nice sized pods going. Peas needed to be strapped up better to their supports today, many falling back from trellises. Darn it, they always do that! Species is just not a great climber in single rows. That said, they all are doing well and flowering prettily. Almost all the pea flowers so far are pink, only a couple white flowered varieties.

Arugula, cilantro, claytonia are all starting to go to seed as well. The arugula never did develop good sized leaves. I probably over seeded. Oh well, next time. Not sure what to do with the marigolds as more heads going to seed; on the one hand I'd like to continue to enjoy their incredible scent. But each plant must have 100 flowers on them and that's a lot of deadheading. Then again, we're nearing mid July and I do want mature seeds. Decisions, decisions.

Cleaned up the DISASTER I created doing seek and destroy with the vole. The logs cut from the tree DH felled, the hole I dug out to destroy tunnels etc. Looked like a bomb went off. Got my first kenikir bloom today! Deep orange like a calendula, flower type like a cosmos. Kenikir has been a really nice surprise, it forms a tidy hedge with foliage like chrysanthemums. Hardy, doesn't need much, does well crowded. I will definitely keep it around in the future.

Another nice surprise has been the Penny Black nemophilia, the 5 Spot and Fairy Bouquet linaria. I will definitely offer them in the seed exchange if I get enough seed. The flax foliage is certainly unique, with the blue flowered variety very different from the red. The Adonis foliage is handsome, but the night scented stocks on the other hand look just like weeds! Same with the Chinese Forget Me Nots, weedy.

Happy to see that every tomato with fruit on it (my own saved seed that is) has so far seemed to come true. I see no signs of crosses, which always makes me happy.


Morden Midget

'Alaska' daisies

'Yellow Hinkelhatz'

Seed grown soapwort! DD keeps asking if we can make soap with it yet

Better pic of the 5 spot

Daylilies have begun

'Green Punjab'

Unknown clematis variety

Cutting celery, wow, lots of flavour. Did some research yesterday night and I'm disappointed to learn I robably won't be able to overwinter it for seeds next year.

Melanzana Rotunda, very odd leaves on this plant. Same with Striped Toga. Bumpy.

 

[Zeedman]

I meant the RP morning glories. For some reason I thought you grew those, my mistake. Have you eaten asparagus peas? From what I read they don't really taste like asparagus, @Zeedman have you tried them? Sort of like the Jerusalem Artichokes that don't really taste like artichokes I guess. Lol (Not from there either!)

Tried asparagus peas a few years back, and was not impressed. Pretty flowers, but the pods were few & developed tough fiber very early. Then too, they appear to be a cool-weather crop, and those generally languish when the heat of summer arrives here.

 

[ducks4you]

Thought that I might be of help.

Both NE Seed and Seeds from Italy list carosellos. Both say "out of stock."

If you try this one in 2023, please tell us on TEG about growing and flavour.

Steve

We seriously need to up our game on our seed sharing. For the price of a stamp, even if ONE seed that we give each other sprouts, you can gather seeds for the future.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

I meant the RP morning glories. For some reason I thought you grew those, my mistake. Have you eaten asparagus peas? From what I read they don't really taste like asparagus, @Zeedman have you tried them? Sort of like the Jerusalem Artichokes that don't really taste like artichokes I guess. Lol (Not from there either!)

As I wrote I DID grow Japanese Morning Glories (I'm going back to the name for them I'm used to.) two or three years ago. I just didn't DO anything out of the ordinary to get them to grow. I don't think I even bothered to scarify the seeds (there were too many).

The only thing I COULD recommend doing that I didn't and wish I did doesn't appear to apply to you, because it looks like you are growing only one color of them. Since mine were "wild collected" and mixed, I WISH I had worked out a way to track each vine so as to be able to save the colors discretely, so that I would have control of which went where in the future.*

We seriously need to up our game on our seed sharing. For the price of a stamp, even if ONE seed that we give each other sprouts, you can gather seeds for the future.

On one level, I agree, but on the other, sharing seed too vigorously is, at least for me, a double edged sword. In this seed saving world, seed that you have that someone else doesn't and wants is sort of a bargaining chip. For every person who believes in sharing freely, there is someone who guards their seeds like a dragon's hoard, and will only send you what you want if you can offer them something they want and don't have (I have mentioned the person on my other seed saving site who won't take modern cash for his seed and requires payment in silver). So that generally means that, per person, I usually get ONE chance per person to use any seed I might have to get something I want, and, as I don't HAVE many types, that means I have to make them count.

There is also the matter of amount. Because of the way I get most of my seed, and my poor growing situation, I tend not to have much of anything I might want to share to go around. So the amounts I can offer are quite meagre, and for some growers, that isn't compatible with the way they want to use the seed. Corn is a good example. When I send out corn kernels, I might send out ten or twenty, assuming that the person will grow them isolated for a year or two to up the numbers before playing around with it. But for a lot of people, that isn't how they want to work; they want to add it to their field grex IMMEDIATELY; and toss my ten or twenty seeds among their hundreds or thousands (where, generally, whatever trait they have is quickly swamped out my sheer numbers.) To solve this, there are some people who think that the answer is to simply get more of my seed, and ask (or even demand) that I turn over ALL of the seed I have, INCLUDING whatever I was keeping for my own use on the grounds that "I can grow it better than you can, so I have more right to it than you do." And, with my psychological makeup, I sometimes have a difficult time not thinking they are right, that, if it REALLY cared about saving these types, I would hand them over to someone more "worthy" as soon as I got them, and move from being a seed grower to simply a seed provider for others, taking all of the expense without asking for any reward or recompense.

 

[heirloomgal]

As I wrote I DID grow Japanese Morning Glories (I'm going back to the name for them I'm used to.) two or three years ago. I just didn't DO anything out of the ordinary to get them to grow. I don't think I even bothered to scarify the seeds (there were too many).

The only thing I COULD recommend doing that I didn't and wish I did doesn't appear to apply to you, because it looks like you are growing only one color of them. Since mine were "wild collected" and mixed, I WISH I had worked out a way to track each vine so as to be able to save the colors discretely, so that I would have control of which went where in the future.*

On one level, I agree, but on the other, sharing seed too vigorously is, at least for me, a double edged sword. In this seed saving world, seed that you have that someone else doesn't and wants is sort of a bargaining chip. For every person who believes in sharing freely, there is someone who guards their seeds like a dragon's hoard, and will only send you what you want if you can offer them something they want and don't have (I have mentioned the person on my other seed saving site who won't take modern cash for his seed and requires payment in silver). So that generally means that, per person, I usually get ONE chance per person to use any seed I might have to get something I want, and, as I don't HAVE many types, that means I have to make them count.

There is also the matter of amount. Because of the way I get most of my seed, and my poor growing situation, I tend not to have much of anything I might want to share to go around. So the amounts I can offer are quite meagre, and for some growers, that isn't compatible with the way they want to use the seed. Corn is a good example. When I send out corn kernels, I might send out ten or twenty, assuming that the person will grow them isolated for a year or two to up the numbers before playing around with it. But for a lot of people, that isn't how they want to work; they want to add it to their field grex IMMEDIATELY; and toss my ten or twenty seeds among their hundreds or thousands (where, generally, whatever trait they have is quickly swamped out my sheer numbers.) To solve this, there are some people who think that the answer is to simply get more of my seed, and ask (or even demand) that I turn over ALL of the seed I have, INCLUDING whatever I was keeping for my own use on the grounds that "I can grow it better than you can, so I have more right to it than you do." And, with my psychological makeup, I sometimes have a difficult time not thinking they are right, that, if it REALLY cared about saving these types, I would hand them over to someone more "worthy" as soon as I got them, and move from being a seed grower to simply a seed provider for others, taking all of the expense without asking for any reward or recompense.

When I attended my first Seedy Saturday as a helper not a browser, I stood at a table next to the main seed exchange table. People would get tickets based on the number of packets they gave to the main table, and then could pick a seed envelope from the exchange table for each ticket they had. There was no purchasing seeds until half an hour before the event was over. I came with a lot of tomato seed varieties to contribute to the effort and was only there as an info person for the tom's (the teeny plastic bead envelopes I had, had names only, no pictures) but as things went along the main table people said just ask for a bit per envelope, since the people approaching me didn't understand how the ticket system worked and just wanted to buy the seeds I had donated. The whole SS thing was fairly new here, and there was a lot of confused people. So I said 50 cents per and stopped trying to explain to each bewildered person how to get tickets for the seeds. I only had 10 seeds or less in each envelope, but nobody cared! They wanted those tomato seeds regardless. By the end of the day I had nearly 150 bucks. So, I think @ducksforyou has a great idea. It's SO true, that if you can get even one seed to sprout and eventually make seed - bingo bango you have a new variety in your possession! I once thought of including on a seed packet the square footage of space the contents of the envelope will require/provide in plants. It gives perspective to what is contained in just a few tiny seeds. I'd honestly be curious to do the math on 5 tomato plants in ground, and 3 pole beans on a pole. The square foot space even in vertical would be something.

 

[heirloomgal]

We seriously need to up our game on our seed sharing. For the price of a stamp, even if ONE seed that we give each other sprouts, you can gather seeds for the future.

Such a great idea. The future of our food is looking more and more fragile; it's almost as if there is a concerted effort against food production and food growers, which will result in people by necessity having to grow at least some of their own food. The situation with our farmers here in Canada and the enormous forces working against them can only result in shortages. The situation with the farmers in the Netherlands is concerning. At the the same time, the situation with seeds is also in jeopardy from the point of view that borders around the world are increasingly closing to the movement of seed - except to corporations. The EU seems to have sealed itself off, as well as other places; it's shocking commie Canada hasn't done so with all the other treachery going on. Probably just a matter of time for us. So I shall continue on as a squirrel collecting acorns. Lol

 

[ducks4you]

Anger simmers for Dutch farmers who oppose pollution cuts

MAASLAND, Netherlands (AP) — Bales of hay lie burning along Dutch highways. Supermarket shelves stand empty because distribution centers are blocked by farmers. Then, at dusk, a police officer pull…

www.nwahomepage.com

"That turmoil seems a long way off Friday at Jaap Zegwaard’s dairy farm, which occupies 80 hectares (200 acres) of grassland close to the port city of Rotterdam, whose chimneys and cranes form a backdrop to his fields.

Most of Zegwaard’s herd of 180 cattle, mostly black and white Holstein-Friesians, graze in meadows close to a traditional Dutch windmill and large white wind turbines."
...
"“The average person currently sees the Netherlands as a nitrogen polluter, while we are also a food producer. It seems like people have forgotten that,” he told The Associated Press.

 

[ducks4you]

Dunno...
Stalin killed off HIS farmers.
Are they to that point yet?!?!?

 

[Pulsegleaner]

When I attended my first Seedy Saturday as a helper not a browser, I stood at a table next to the main seed exchange table. People would get tickets based on the number of packets they gave to the main table, and then could pick a seed envelope from the exchange table for each ticket they had. There was no purchasing seeds until half an hour before the event was over. I came with a lot of tomato seed varieties to contribute to the effort and was only there as an info person for the tom's (the teeny plastic bead envelopes I had, had names only, no pictures) but as things went along the main table people said just ask for a bit per envelope, since the people approaching me didn't understand how the ticket system worked and just wanted to buy the seeds I had donated. The whole SS thing was fairly new here, and there was a lot of confused people. So I said 50 cents per and stopped trying to explain to each bewildered person how to get tickets for the seeds. I only had 10 seeds or less in each envelope, but nobody cared! They wanted those tomato seeds regardless. By the end of the day I had nearly 150 bucks. So, I think @ducksforyou has a great idea. It's SO true, that if you can get even one seed to sprout and eventually make seed - bingo bango you have a new variety in your possession! I once thought of including on a seed packet the square footage of space the contents of the envelope will require/provide in plants. It gives perspective to what is contained in just a few tiny seeds. I'd honestly be curious to do the math on 5 tomato plants in ground, and 3 pole beans on a pole. The square foot space even in vertical would be something.

But see, that isn't how I think about it. I take the whole stewardship thing VERY seriously. I DON'T own my seeds, I'm just the one who found them. That doesn't vest me any property rights, but it DOES mean that I have an obligation to do what is right for them, even if what is right for them is not what is right for me. Actually "obligation" is a bit too weak of a word, "geas" might be closer. In my book, what the Vavilov Institute scientists did in WWII, locking themselves in the building and literally starving to death in order to make sure the seed survived, wasn't just laudable, it was the MINIMUM that ANYONE should have BEEN REQUIRED to do in those circumstances. Even choice I make about my seeds is my responsibility, and if I make the wrong one, I have not just made a mistake, I have failed the seeds, failed myself, and failed all of the people in the world those seeds and their progeny could have helped. I get it wrong, and, in my books, I'm not just guilty of a mistake or miscalculation, I'm guilty of potential manslaughter, or even murder, of untold millions of people. (as I once said in the sayings thread "every person must carry and comport themselves in the same manner as if they, and they alone, are responsible for carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders.")
Now add to this my knowledge of how atrociously BAD I am at growing thing, and how poor my conditions are, and you see my problem. It becomes very easy to reach the conclusion that, with my circumstances, even TRYING to grow anything I find is the wrong choice. And that extends to sending out seeds as well. If the seeds I send to someone ultimately fail to establish a good healthy population, or become genetically bottlenecked because I sent so few, then, in my books, I have done an immoral and evil thing.
The only reason I CAN still justify doing things like planting and controlling the amount of seed that goes out, and to whom, is that I believe that doing right by me seeds also entails making sure that those qualities I selected them for are maintained and promoted. So sending the seed to the wrong person is akin to destroying it. And that is always a shaky justification, since one could argue that I also have no skill at that, or it is not my place to judge someone else "unworthy" just because they have a different idea of which way the destiny of a line should go. One can even make a pretty robust argument that, given how bad I am at growing, literally ANYONE is "more worthy" than me to grow my seeds, and I have an obligation not merely send them but do anything and everything necessary to get them into their hands. Forget about trying to charge someone something in order to recoup my expenses, I'm not sure if I don't have an obligation to pay THEM if that is what is necessary to get them to accept my seeds. I might even have an obligation to use my resources to further THEIR projects rather than my own (as in, pay for whatever seeds they want to order for themselves.) Remember that, in my book, correct behavior isn't about putting others first, it's about putting yourself last, or, more accurately, not putting yourself AT ALL. Devoting your life to others isn't just a "good thing" it is REQUIRED for a proper functioning society. ANY self promotion or self gratification, up to and including self-preservation, is selfish. As I have said before, TRUE selflessness isn't self denial, it's self-destruction.