Consumer prices for organic food

[homewardbound]

A lot of people (mainly people who own commercial organic farms) insist that their products cost more at the grocery store and farmers market because it costs more to produce food using organic methods. But in my personal experience I have found that since changing to organic methods in the mid-1990s I produce more food per amount of money spent (since I dont use expensive fertilizers or pesticides) and more food per amount of space planted (using the square foot method rather than rows) and more food per amount of time spent laboring in the garden than I ever did with non-organic methods. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

 

[seedcorn]

IF you are talking small home garden, organic is much cheaper. IF you are trying to make a living growing and selling organic products, productivity is much less and cost is much greater. That is why commercial growers have to sell for a higher average price. The real difference is between the hobbiest who values his time in the enjoyment of his garden vs. someone who needs the produce to pay for his time and expenses.

 

[897tgigvib]

How about we try some hypothetical example for cost differences between Poison and other chemical farming methods versus organic non toxic methods:

Let's try a what should be relatively simple example: Apples

How about we go with a typical size orchard of 40 acres. That is a typical commercial Apple orchard size in Sonoma County California, and would be typical of either a Chemical or an Organic orchard.

They both have a tractor, and usually when you see it, you are seeing a good rugged older model standard 4 cylinder tractor.

Let's say they have both had their orchard for 15 years, and still have the same amount to pay on their mortgage. Neither one started out any richer than the other. Both are in similar good health, similar intelligence and education, similar family circumstances.

Let's say this year they are both replanting 5 acres...just to keep it interesting, and to highlight any difference in planting costs.

Let's say they have similar things and tools.

LET'S TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHY ORGANIC APPLES COST MORE.

 

[seedcorn]

Not knowing anything about apples (except I have no idea how to prune therefore my apples are knarly) can someone make a living on 40 acres of apple trees? If organic can't use chemicals to stop scab, how much do scabby apples sell for vs. non-scabby apples? IF organic can use chemicals is it really organic or chemical free? Or is it just approved chemicals which is nothing but some man's determinations. My chemicals are good vs. your's are bad............yeah right.

 

[897tgigvib]

Scab does not happen in Sonoma County.

Fireblight can, but that is what the organic farmer has to deal with, so they get fireblight resistant trees, which really works well.

So we don't have to worry about the quality difference of apples being scabby. It just does not happen around there.

Let us say organic farmers can't use chemicals, but must use USDA approved materials for certification.

Let's not let this be any kind of argument, but an exercise instead.

I am actually beginning to wonder why organic produce costs more. Is it just because it is better, or is it because it costs more to produce?

 

[The Mama Chicken]

There are several organic treatments that can be used on crops. Pyrethrum is made from chrysanthemums, and it is a hardcore neurotoxin that kills all insects (good or bad.) Since it's made from natural substances it's organic. Sulfur, copper, soap, tobacco, hot pepper oil, garlic and neem oil are also used for organic pest control. I think copper is also used to treat scab on apples, but I'm not positive.
I doubt you could live on the income from a 40 acre apple orchard these days.

 

[897tgigvib]

You're probably right about these days. 40 acres was a typical orchard in the '60's. How about we say 100 acres?

Most of the orchards i see do use beneficial insects.
Pyrethrum Daisies look enough like Chrysanthemums to call them Chrysanthemums.

Can you figure the cost differences Mama Chicken?

 

[The Mama Chicken]

No way, math is NOT my strong suit! I can make babies, cook, clean, garden and milk the goat (at the same time if need be) but I still count on my fingers some days.
My hubby handles anything that involves math (including grocery shopping) because I get flustered and frustrated... and then I start saying all of those words we don't want the kids repeating at school or in front of the grandparents,

 

[897tgigvib]

Oh, I call that

(Make sure the kids close their eyes)

FLUSTERBATED

 

[homewardbound]

How about we go with a typical size orchard of 40 acres. That is a typical commercial Apple orchard size in Sonoma County California, and would be typical of either a Chemical or an Organic orchard.

You are violating a central tenet of organic farming first thing. A legitimate organic farmer does not do monocropping if he has enough acreage not to. A 40 acre organic farm should not have 40 acres of apples. A single crop failure and the entire farm could be ruined financially and a single crop does not allow for biological diversity that would enable an organic farm to thrive. And most organic farms in the eastern part of the country dont have more than a dozen acres, but even they try to produce multiple things.

They both have a tractor, and usually when you see it, you are seeing a good rugged older model standard 4 cylinder tractor.

Where does the organic farmer get the fuel for this tractor? If it is petro-based from the oil industry he is violating another central tenet of organic farming- not being self-sufficient. Furthermore, an orchard would not need to be plowed up on a regular basis the way a grain field would so there is no need for an organic orchard to have a tractor. If the organic orchardist is worried about keeping the grass mowed he can use babydoll Southdown sheep. These animals are only about 2 feet tall and they are used to mow the grass in organic vineyards and orchards because they are too short to reach the trees or grapevines. And they recycle the grass into fertilizer and give the farmer 2 other crops from the same space as the orchard- meat and wool similar to cashmere.

Let's say they have both had their orchard for 15 years, and still have the same amount to pay on their mortgage. Neither one started out any richer than the other.

Having a mortgage is not really an organic farming technique. Unless you start out by buying a piece of land that is overpriced because it is certified organic a mortgage doesnt give the organic farmer any extra production costs.

Both are in similar good health, similar intelligence and education, similar family circumstances.

Again, none of these tings has anything to do with the cost of growing food using organic methods- although organic farmers are usually smarter than non-organic farmers for the simple fact that organic farmers are smart enough to understand what non-organic farmers are doing to the environment and the economy.

Let's say this year they are both replanting 5 acres...just to keep it interesting, and to highlight any difference in planting costs.

The organic farmer will pay more for his trees simply because the plant nurseries want more for organic trees just because they are organic. If I had an organic peach tree and my neighbor had a non-organic peach tree we could both propagate our trees using the same method so our cost would be the same. But since my tree can be labeled organic I could charge a higher price for it simply because of the economic laws of supply and demand. Some consumers are willing to pay more for some things just because they are labeled organic.

Regarding pesticides: The organic farmer can use predatory insects to control bugs in his orchard. As long as he is willing to accept a certain amount of bug damage his farm can become a naturally self-sustaining ecosystem so there will always be enough bad bugs to feed the good bugs. But a non-organic farmer will always have the cost of manmade pesticides and the equipment and labor needed to apply them. So the non-organic farmer will have perpetual costs that the organic farmer does not have because the organic farmer is working with nature instead of competing with nature.