I guess I don't really understand heirloom tomatoes . . ?

[Teka]

My husband always insists on planting one or two Early Girl hybrids -- they do what he expects and make a good amount of tomatos, then they're done. My heirlooms carry the load.

I grow a dozen or so varieties in any given year, depending on "winter sow'n" success and new ones that I spot in catalogs. My favorites are Japanese black cherry, sun sugar, boxcar willie, and my romas -- not sure of the variety, but I have been growing them for about 10 years now. I also grow by default Koralik, a very prolific red cherry that comes up on its own everywhere.

This year, I also grew plants of Compari and Kumato -- from BJ and Trader Joe tomatoes. The first year plants were consistent with the fruit I "stole" the seed from, but we'll see what happens next year.

I no longer bother with black krim or brandywines as they just didn't stand up to the weather or produce as I wuld like. I think Cherokee purple will be added to this list; the fruit is large and plentiful, but seems to rot before it gets to the ripe stage, even if I pick it early and let it ripen inside.

I also love Mr. Stripey, but found the seed did vary quite a bit. Out of 3 Mr. Stripey plants, one was a large round orange fruit, one was red and one was finally the 2-toned fruit I love.

Here's why I love heirlooms:

1. They won the tomato war. My husband was not convinced that they produced well. So, for one season, we weighed our yields from his Burpee hybrids and my heirlooms. The hybrids, crated for the ease of the growers and not for their taste or other qualities, produced early and looked impressive with a large amount of ripe fruit on each plant. However, they did not produce over the long season that my heirloom did, and my heirlooms out-produced.

2. My hierlooms, the varieies I have now, have held up well in my weather -- heat, drought, and all. The hybrids my neighbor gave me this year are long gone, or had buggy fruit, or tasted mushy, or split, or dropped fruit.

3. I save money by saving my own seed and starting my plants each year. I am able to give away many, many plants (my culls) to friends and family at negligible cost to me. I took over 80 misc. plants to work this year (tomatos, peppers, herbs, etc.) for students and peers to grow. I enjoy hearing their reports of success.

4. Heirlooms keep on giving. I have volunteer plants all the time. I just planted 8 lovely plants to fill in where the Early Girls were, and in between older plants. I'll have another crop of tomatos from this volunteer crop soon.

5. The taste, the color, the textures. Do you always eat vanilla ice cream? Not me, I like to mix it up. I can't stand a cardboard tomato, and I love the variety I get from my heirlooms.

 

[digitS']

I feel that I'm a little bit addicted to Early Girls guarantee of success, Teka. I didn't even know that they played-out in a place like Delaware. I'll have them to the bitter end here.

It is pretty much what I do, Seedcorn. Still, if I wasn't too concerned about production - the heirlooms could completely replace the hybrids.

I've had Big Beef Hybrid almost since its release around 1990. It was like hitting the jackpot with that beefsteak. I'd gone thru other of the early-ripening beefsteaks and still haven't found one that fits better with my environment and tastes.

Splitting is the biggest problem with the cherries. Sweetness, the biggest attraction. I've never found an heirloom as sweet as a hybrid like Sungold or Sweet 100. Sugar Lump is misnamed! There must be other reasons to like that one (also known as Gardener's Delight). Dr. Carolyn is ripening in my garden. It is open-pollinated and a sport of Galina, from Russia. I'm real happy with it but it isn't as sweet as the hybrids.

It is in the middle range that the heirlooms are the most competitive . Thessaloniki could probably be called a beefsteak if a 6 ounce tomato rates as one. It seems to be almost ideally suited for my garden but despite the claim that it is a 68-day tomato, it comes in late. On the other hand, Bloody Butcher will almost beat the cherries. Buisson is nearly as early ripening. Both of these small tomatoes have "big tomato" flavor. I've grown Tigerella for a few years and, I have to admit, the prettiness of this little tomato really appeals to me. None of these ever split. Last year, Woodle Orange made its debut. It not only is pretty and never split but the little plants are wonderfully productive.

I really think that there are many more of these productive and healthy little tomatoes out there. The big guys, I'm not so sure about. Someone told me the other day that the big heirlooms seem to be from the Ohio Valley and suited for that environment. I know this isn't entirely true but can understand why he thinks so. We just gotta find some that can handle a place with cool nighttime temperatures that don't set them back so much that they cannot do well before we run out of a growing season . . .

I'm pleased with Casey's. We will see how it pans-out thru the rest of the season. I've had one Gary O'Sena and it was good but had some splits. Last year, I thought Dana's Dusky Rose was really going to do well but it was only the early 1 tomato that did. The rest of the season, the fruits just kind of broke apart :/!

I know that overhead irrigation is a part of the problem but I've little choice and some varieties handle that water coming down on them, with zero problems!

Steve

 

[Smiles Jr.]

That amounts to quite a good size homestead, Smilles! I hope you aren't mowing lawn grass between these four corners.

Actually it's not a gigantic amount of grass to mow. With a pond, large veggie garden, several flower gardens, several out buildings, our house, and the gravel driveway/barnyard. Maybe an acre of grass in total.

 

[Jared77]

I'll stick with my hybrids for main crop and play with heirlooms

This is where I'm at myself. I like to try new varieties and as I have success or failures they dictate whether or not Ill keep them for next season. But its true the success of the Early Girls is tough to surpass. Id like to get a strain of Romas going and maybe an Early Girl sized tomato that I save season to season but until I find it Ill keep doing what I'm doing.

I think part of the problem with the heirlooms is they are the new "it" thing to grow. People who have never had tomatoes are suddenly wanting to grow Green Zebras and Black Krims. Its not uncommon to hear "heirloom tomatoes" on cooking shows, having Bobby Flay, Wolfgang Puck, etc raving about them, websites, cooking magazines etc. I've seen a surge in the varieties at the nursery as well as even at Walmart. So its no surprise that the quality isn't there. It takes discipline and a desire to keep those strains pure and not everybody is willing to focus on those aspects to the degree that the heirloom varieties need. Unfortunately that's what happens when things get popular.

Thank you for the links Marshall I plan on using them for next year so I can really get what I want.

 

[897tgigvib]

I sure did not know that heirloom tomatoes are a new in thing. I was growing delicious, ace, porter, beefsteak, and italian climbing tomato in the 1960's. It was sometime in the late '70's that my sister Laurie got one called brandywine from a man who wrote a book she purchased. Thinking about that one, it may have been a bit before brandywine seeds were available in any catalogs. I also grew regular ponderosa and oxheart back then. Big'uns for a 12 year old told to learn to garden yerself, and take the advice of other gardeners, specially the older ones, which they all were. Ole Frank told me not to water so much as to make mud. Bill told me to make Texas rows and water trenches down them. Dad told me to make circular water troughs. That worked much better. Johnny told me to Lassoo those tomato plants or i'd be sorry. Heather said save the radish seeds because she did not know how. Patrick said for me to leave room for first base for our baseball field...Eleanor said start your own plants, buying plants is cheating...one of my seed catalogs said how to and what to buy...

There are heirloom tomatoes that are as sure to crop easily as early girl. Glacier and stupice come to mind. Costoluto Genovese and Fiorentino make 2 very distinct flavored tomatoes. At the nursery I used to work at in Zone barely 4 Montana, I sold hundreds of Costoluto Fiorentino plants. I only ever saw one die. It might have been the one that I sneezed while transplanting.

Black Krim, Prince, Green Zebra, and Evergreen are indeed varieties that are susceptible to stem diseases. I'd recommend those varieties for areas that have few stem diseases in tomatoes. There are alternatives for each. Paul Robeson is quite healthy.

 

[Jared77]

Its more the fact that more people are aware of them. The average Joe or Joan who only grows a couple of tomato plants in their backyard next to the peonies (since its sunny and one less thing to mow around ) is no longer just growing Early Girls, Romas, or Big boys, and maybe a sweet 100 plant on the patio for their spouse who wants them for salads. They are growing Boxcar Willie, Mr Stripey, and as I said Black Krims and Green Zebras to name a few. To the dedicated gardeners and tomato fans those are nothing new, but to the people I just described (and they far outnumber us serious gardeners) its like a new world open to them.

I appreciate the suggestions for heirlooms. I want to get away from the Early Girls so I can save seed and really get a strain going that does well for me locally for my own purposes but its tough when I've got a good thing going with the EG. I'd feel a lot better knowing I have my own seeds for each year after vs having to purchase new each year.

 

[journey11]

I think perhaps something to consider about cross pollination is the availability of other pollen sources. Hardly anything touches my tomatoes and definitely not the honey bees becsuse it is so rural and diverse in flora here. I've not had any tomatoes cross yet of my favorites I've saved seed from and I plant all of mine side by side and usually 8 or so varieties. Tomatoes are not a prime pollen or nectar source, so if there's something better available, you'll have less crossing.

Also, you have to take into accountability what the growing conditions were before you rule out an heirloom as a bad producer. They are often less resilient than a hybrid and often lack disease resistance. I notice a lot of difference in my varieties grown even side by side when you have to factor in hot temps, drought, soil quality/pH, were they mulched, etc. Some may cat-face badly during a hot,dry spell, only to turn out a second nice crop on the exact same plant when the weather improves later in the summer for example.

Tomatoes love WV. . (And in being sensitive to you Northerners, I really am sad that you all can't grow a brandywine!) Our summers here tend to be moderately hot and very humid so I've not had much trouble with tomatoes, heirloom or an occasional hybrid I might throw in there. Black Krims are one of my dependable favorites, so I am surprised to read so many have had trouble with them. They aren't heavy producers, but the tomatoes I get from mine are so tasty and well shaped (and don't ever crack on me like Cherokee purple tend to) so they are in my garden every year. There are so many heirlooms to pick from, but it pays to remember that a variety may or may not be suited to your location.

 

[digitS']

I predate heirlooms . . . well, maybe not. But! I predate soopermarkets in my part of the world. I can remember the Groceteria opening and it had everything in 1 store! The door was in the parking lot!! (There were flags on ropes hung over the parking and converging at the door so we wouldn't get lost amongst the cars trying to find our way in . Yeah, we might have ended up out on the street sidewalk trying to get into the building where the proper entrance was supposed to be .)

The Groceteria also had this bright, bright fluorescent lighting. You can imagine how bad that made ugly old brown packaging look! And, it made our fresh food look kind of bad, too! I mean, we'd won the war! We deserved pretty, colorful, blemish-free stuff. We got it . . . and, all the old varieties went away.

. . . Also, you have to take into accountability what the growing conditions were before you rule out an heirloom as a bad producer. They are often less resilient than a hybrid and often lack disease resistance. I notice a lot of difference in my varieties grown even side by side when you have to factor in hot temps, drought, soil quality/pH, were they mulched, etc. Some may cat-face badly during a hot,dry spell, only to turn out a second nice crop on the exact same plant when the weather improves later in the summer for example. . .

There are a few definitions of "heirloom." I think that the definition that we are talking about here is that it is "site specific" and just may not do so well when taken from its home turf. We may be scrambling around a bit faced with climate change but the varieties that grew well for decades in this valley or that valley just cannot be expected to perform so well when moved to a different location. And, not only will the climate be different but so will the soil. I can hardly believe the differences in soil type across this continent! Climate & Soil -- it is remarkable that any variety of anything can grow in widely separated gardens.

We are busy finding what works for us. We'd better practice some seed saving or they may slip right thru our fingers. I am already seeing heirlooms, come and go.

Steve

 

[Teka]

Hierlooms are not new -- they are just hot right now because people are tired of commercially-designed tomatos with zero tasre! If you grow for a commercial market such as a farmer's market or produce stand, PAY ATTENTION because this will make your product more desirable HENCE more pricey.

But, if you are growing for your own use, heirlooms offer an improved chance of a variety that will do well in your area -- heirlooms are intended to be regional, if not local, as they are the best fruits of a grower in a specifice area. As previous posts indicate, some have had better success with one strain. This is as it should be. It is reasonable for us to expect that one tomato variety would work everywhere?

What is significant to me is that heirlooms offer the opportunity to repeat a success without paying for new seed. Hybrids are fine for some purposes, but do you need to pay again and again for the same success? The answer is no if you find the right heirloom. NOTE THAT I SAID RIGHT HEIRLOOM. Not every variety wou;d work for everyony. These plants are bred for specific conditions and uses. But, if you find the right variety, you are the owner in perpetuity.

 

[plainolebill]

Teka, I posted earlier on the thead about heirlooms in our neck of the woods so I won't repeat what I said there.

I wanted to report that through today we have picked 32 lbs of Jetstar tomatoes from 3 vines. These tomatoes are thin skinned and tasty - you couldn't ship them across the county much less from the San Juaquin Valley or Mexico.