Looking for Tomatillo Advice

[heirloomgal]

I've bought two tomatillo seed varieties this year which are quite different from one another. They are Queen Malinalco and Deep Purple. They're quite different varieties, one being sweet and yellow (as well as uniquely shaped) and the other is dark purple and the more standard flavoured variety. I'm wondering if it is possible to grow them in the same garden, or same area, without them cross pollinating? I can't seem to turn up much on internet searches that seems reliable. I'm also wondering how many plants I would need for good pollination as it seems you need more than one plant to get fruits. I wonder how many plants I need to put in? If anyone has any suggestions or feedback, I'd appreciate it!

 

[Zeedman]

I've often seen it stated that you should have at least two plants to get good pollination. But I question that statement, since I grew a single plant once, in a very isolated area, and it still produced fruit. That was a purple variety (Purple de Milpa). I've always grown more than one since, so I don't know how yield per plant would be affected by population size. You would probably want more than one plant anyway, to get a decent yield; how many would depend upon what you plan to do with them. Space may enter into that consideration too, since a single tomatillo plant can sprawl 6 feet or more, unless caged or trained upward (which I recommend).

Because of their very open flowers, crossing between two varieties would be likely, unless blossom bagging & hand pollination was used for seed saving. This may not be as hard as it seems; since every tomatillo produces a lot of seeds, you would only need a few successful hand pollinations on each variety to save a fairly large amount of seed.

Queen Malinalco looks really interesting, I hope to trial it in 2022. The fact that there is a Canadian seed source is reassuring, in terms of DTM. This year I plan to grow "Verde Grande", a very large green-fruited variety.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I've never grown tomatillo so I have no experience with them. It's hard to get reliable information off of the internet on much of anything, it gets frustrating. This article from Seedsavers addresses tomatillo pollination for seed saving.

Tomatillo Isolation Requirements - Setting the Record Straight — Seed Savers Exchange Blog

One crop that is consistently misunderstood among seed savers is tomatillos. Tomatillos are outcrossers, meaning that their flowers cross-pollinate and are incapable of self-pollination.

blog.seedsavers.org

One thing this article does not address is whether you need flowers from two different plants to set fruit or just two different flowers from the same plant. Google found articles that said both. Seedsavers experiment did not address that, just if one specific flower is self-pollinating.

But the bottom line is that Seedsavers said they rely on insects for pollination, whether that is from other flowers on the same plant or flowers form other plants.. If you accept Seedsavers as an authority, that means if you have two different varieties anywhere close together you cannot save seeds with any confidence that they are not cross-pollinated.

One thing you could try is to bag a few flowers and hand-pollinate with other flowers from the same plant. Some of the articles I read suggested this could work, that it is each individual flower that is incompatible, not every flower off of that plant. From Zeedman's experience with a single plant I think this has a chance.

 

[heirloomgal]

I've often seen it stated that you should have at least two plants to get good pollination. But I question that statement, since I grew a single plant once, in a very isolated area, and it still produced fruit. That was a purple variety (Purple de Milpa). I've always grown more than one since, so I don't know how yield per plant would be affected by population size. You would probably want more than one plant anyway, to get a decent yield; how many would depend upon what you plan to do with them. Space may enter into that consideration too, since a single tomatillo plant can sprawl 6 feet or more, unless caged or trained upward (which I recommend).

Because of their very open flowers, crossing between two varieties would be likely, unless blossom bagging & hand pollination was used for seed saving. This may not be as hard as it seems; since every tomatillo produces a lot of seeds, you would only need a few successful hand pollinations on each variety to save a fairly large amount of seed.

Queen Malinalco looks really interesting, I hope to trial it in 2022. The fact that there is a Canadian seed source is reassuring, in terms of DTM. This year I plan to grow "Verde Grande", a very large green-fruited variety.

Thanks @Zeedman I think I'll plant 4-6 then of the Queen of Malinalco, and hope they don't get quite that big! I'm not going to risk contaminating my seed crop with more than one type just in case. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with them yet, I liked this particular variety because it was described as being sweet, almost like a ground cherry, and I love ground cherries. Plus, I think it's a really beautiful fruit and so different. If I succeed I'll send you some seeds I guess Deep Purple will have to wait for 2022.

 

[heirloomgal]

I've never grown tomatillo so I have no experience with them. It's hard to get reliable information off of the internet on much of anything, it gets frustrating. This article from Seedsavers addresses tomatillo pollination for seed saving.

Tomatillo Isolation Requirements - Setting the Record Straight — Seed Savers Exchange Blog

One crop that is consistently misunderstood among seed savers is tomatillos. Tomatillos are outcrossers, meaning that their flowers cross-pollinate and are incapable of self-pollination.

blog.seedsavers.org

One thing this article does not address is whether you need flowers from two different plants to set fruit or just two different flowers from the same plant. Google found articles that said both. Seedsavers experiment did not address that, just if one specific flower is self-pollinating.

But the bottom line is that Seedsavers said they rely on insects for pollination, whether that is from other flowers on the same plant or flowers form other plants.. If you accept Seedsavers as an authority, that means if you have two different varieties anywhere close together you cannot save seeds with any confidence that they are not cross-pollinated.

One thing you could try is to bag a few flowers and hand-pollinate with other flowers from the same plant. Some of the articles I read suggested this could work, that it is each individual flower that is incompatible, not every flower off of that plant. From Zeedman's experience with a single plant I think this has a chance.

Thanks @Ridgerunner I'm glad it wasn't just me that didn't find it simple to get straightforward information about this topic. Usually seed saving directions are pretty easy to find on various places on the internet. This is the first time I've had trouble finding information, or at least consistent information. Many years ago, as a very inexperienced gardener, I tried planting a single plant too. In my case, I remember seeing the flowers along the stem, but no fruit actually grew. Mind you it was a bad location, and I probably did many things incorrectly, so I wouldn't base anything from that experience. Ever since though, when I plant unfamiliar plants, like Morelle de Balbis, I always plant two out of concern it might need a friend. That plant also is a hard one to know if you can plant as a single.

 

[heirloomgal]

Tomatillo Varieties

Queen Malinalco

Deep Purple

 

[heirloomgal]

Okay, have never actually planted tomatillos from my own starts before, and am wondering if it's normal that the stems get really long by the 3rd week? I had to tie them to bamboo skewers so they didn't snake all over the place. (They are all growing quite upright now). I don't think the stem elongation is due to overwatering, as I've been REALLY careful to keep it to a minimum. And I've never fertilized them, they are under full spec grow lights and very close to the bulb. Maybe this is just how they are?

 

[Rhodie Ranch]

I'm no help but when I plant tomatillos, they take over everything and every bed. Never again. But they do make great homemade salsa!

 

[Zeedman]

Okay, have never actually planted tomatillos from my own starts before, and am wondering if it's normal that the stems get really long by the 3rd week? I had to tie them to bamboo skewers so they didn't snake all over the place. (They are all growing quite upright now). I don't think the stem elongation is due to overwatering, as I've been REALLY careful to keep it to a minimum. And I've never fertilized them, they are under full spec grow lights and very close to the bulb. Maybe this is just how they are?

View attachment 40135

Thumbing in from my phone...

Yes, unfortunately that size is normal. Tomatillos grow even more rapidly than tomatoes. I plant tomatoes 6 weeks before my average planting date, and Tomatillos 7-10 days later. Of all the nightshades, they are the fastest growing - and quickly become rootbound. I planted them along with tomatoes the first time I grew them, and they became overgrown & died before they could be transplanted. @heirloomgal , you might want to consider starting another set, just in case.

 

[heirloomgal]

Thumbing in from my phone...

Yes, unfortunately that size is normal. Tomatillos grow even more rapidly than tomatoes. I plant tomatoes 6 weeks before my average planting date, and Tomatillos 7-10 days later. Of all the nightshades, they are the fastest growing - and quickly become rootbound. I planted them along with tomatoes the first time I grew them, and they became overgrown & died before they could be transplanted. @heirloomgal , you might want to consider starting another set, just in case.

Did they get so root bound that they died? Do you think if I keep upping the pot size I could keep them going? Maybe I could cut them at soil level and re-root them in a glass of water. I've done it with leggy tomatoes..

"I planted them along with tomatoes the first time I grew them" -

Hahahaha...that's exactly what I did