Renewable Resources - Fact or Fantasy?

[OldGuy43]

No, I am NOT trolling! I'm looking for a serious discussion here.

Let's start with trees. If you clear cut a natural forest filled with all kinds of trees including hardwoods and replant pine trees in neat rows so that they will be easier to harvest next time are you renewing that resource or replacing it with something that is more cost and time efficient for you?

If you buy a reusable shopping bag that is made from synthetic fibers in a plant in a country that doesn't have serious anti-pollution laws are you really doing your part?

If you purchase a hybrid or electric car how much pollution was created to make that vehicle?

If you buy carbon credits to offset your own pollution are you really helping to solve the problem or just moving it around?

How do you feel about returnable glass bottles as opposed to the throwaway ones? Milk and soft drinks come immediately to mind.

While we're on the subject of containers how do you feel about steel and aluminum cans? Yes, they can be recycled, but with glass all that's needed is washing and sanitizing.

Do you think that oil is a renewable resource? Before answering, please take the long view. Nature does.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Ill try a few of these. Im pressed for time today so Ill hopefully be brief. Thats hard for me.

If you clear cut a natural forest filled with all kinds of trees including hardwoods and replant pine trees in neat rows so that they will be easier to harvest next time are you renewing that resource or replacing it with something that is more cost and time efficient for you?

Both, with qualifications. I consider a pine plantation a green desert because there is a distinct like of diversity of living animals. So you are not renewing that exact resource. The trees do a pretty good job of air pollution control, they grow pretty fast compared to a mixed hardwood forest, and fill a need for a resource we need. I dont like them but considering the alternatives, its probably the best way to go where the climate and terrain are appropriate.

If you buy a reusable shopping bag that is made from synthetic fibers in a plant in a country that doesn't have serious anti-pollution laws are you really doing your part?

What are your alternatives? The ideal situation is to recycle a chicken feed bag to make your own, but is your example better than just using plastic? Or even using paper? The journey from horrible to perfect is not one step. Its an improvement, not perfection. To get something done, it has to be do-able. Perfection is nice, but pragmatic people get things done.

If you buy carbon credits to offset your own pollution are you really helping to solve the problem or just moving it around?

I personally think carbon credits are a scam. There are other similar things, creating other wetlands allowing you to destroy existing wetlands, and some anti-pollution stuff falls in that category.

Do you think that oil is a renewable resource? Before answering, please take the long view. Nature does.

I worked in the industry. There is a limited amount of oil in the ground. Another important concept is recoverable oil, how much of the oil that is there can actually be produced. Technology is improving but the hard to get oil is expensive oil to produce. Weve found and produced most of the easy inexpensive oil here in this country. Yes there is some that we have not been allowed to produce, but not nearly as much easy inexpensive oil as certain people would have you to believe. An example is the shale oil that has caused our oil production to go up lately. That stuff is expensive to produce. The politicians keep talking about reducing the cost of gasoline. If we really did that, we could not make a profit producing that shale oil.

An aside to this, Saudi oil is real cheap to produce and they have a lot of it. If we increase our oil production, they decrease theirs. The world price stays the same. Id personally prefer to use theirs now and leave some of ours in the ground for my grandkids to use.

Ive got six young roosters and three pullets that need to see the inside of my freezer. Have a nice day.

 

[so lucky]

Taking the long view, in a couple million years, oil may be renewable. But the climate has to be appropriate for growing the vegetable matter that made the peat that turned into oil, or whatever process that was.

I have read a little about turning any type of vegetable matter into fuel. I think that is a good area to continue researach. Heaven knows that there is some vegetable matter that could cover the earth in no time!

I wonder why we are so resistant to solar and wind energy? Are we just brainwashed? I would love to have my own windmill. To me, they are graceful and remind me of birds in the air.

Even when we use canning jars, how much energy and resources do we use when washing, canning, etc?

You have good questions, OldGuy.

 

[bobm]

Regarding the wind mill farms ... In the mostly baren windswept foot hills of the SF. Bay area , the windmills seemed to sprout up overnight. Then the environmentalists came upon dead hawks and eagles killed by the windmill blades as they flew into them ... see where I am going with this ? As for the carbon credits scam ... Ask do gooder Al Gore how he is getting rich off of them. Also, in Clark County in S Washington, the State is widening about a 10 mile streach of SH 502 from 2 lanes to 4 lanes. They are destroying existing wet lands by using heavy equipment and huge trucks to haul the soils 10 miles to fill in a low lying area . Then creating about 10 new wetlands by digging the top 2'-3' of top soil to create new wet lands. Many native trees are being cut down, made into wood chips and hauled off. Quite a few more are being denuded of their branches, then toped off and left to stand as lonely posts amid the new created wet lands. Sounds nice, but those areas are productive grass lands that pastured cattle and horses, a horse boarding operation, 2 U- pick blueberry farms, a nursery and other small family farms, as well as a number of small businesses ( restaurant, car repair, plumbing, electrical, wood, coffee, tractor sales/ repair, equipment repair, furniture shops, etc. are being taken over by eminent domain. All of these have to move at a great loss of hard earned dollars or go out of business comepletely, not to mention the loss of jobs.

 

[digitS']

Long view: Are humans renewable?

Anthropologists tell us that the human species has been here as long as 200,000 years. Geologists tell us that the Saudi oil fields were created nearly 200,000,000 years ago. That is 1,000 times the lifetime of our human species.

Very long view: Where (& when) is this terrestrial (or extraterrestrial) species that will benefit from earth's renewable oil resources?

Short view: Faced with world-wide environmental change, what should we do to moderate the effects of our modern human activities?

Steve

 

[OldGuy43]

Long view: Are humans renewable?

Anthropologists tell us that the human species has been here as long as 200,000 years. Geologists tell us that the Saudi oil fields were created nearly 200,000,000 years ago. That is 1,000 times the lifetime of our human species.

Very long view: Where (& when) is this terrestrial (or extraterrestrial) species that will benefit from earth's renewable oil resources?

Short view: Faced with world-wide environmental change, what should we do to moderate the effects of our modern human activities?

Steve

My original plan was to wait at least 24 hours, but I feel Steve deserves an answer.

Short answer; Reduce the population!

Longer answer; We have overpopulated spaceship Earth. We need a negative population growth, worldwide now! We need to quit saving the starving people in (insert name of country or continent) and let nature take its course. As proof I offer this picture:

What you are looking at are the remains of the city of Eridu in Mesopotamia. Founded circa 5400 BCE it is believed by some that at the time it was surrounded by fertile farm land, but the inhabitants used up all of the resources and nutrients in the land and turned the area into a desert. The same thing is happening in the world today. In some areas people are now traveling two to three days on foot just to get firewood. It is my opinion that all of the pollution problems of the World have overpopulation as their root cause.

I know this is not a popular theory, hence the reason no one wants to bring it up, but I believe it to be true.

 

[digitS']

Reduce population? Final Solution?

US fertility rate dropped with lowering rates of infant mortality and broadening support for the elderly.

In some areas people are now traveling two to three days on foot just to get firewood.

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and my home are over 7,300 miles apart by "the shortest path," according to timeanddate.com.

Steve

 

[OldGuy43]

Reduce population? Final Solution?

US fertility rate dropped with lowering rates of infant mortality and broadening support for the elderly.

In some areas people are now traveling two to three days on foot just to get firewood.

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and my home are over 7,300 miles apart by "the shortest path," according to timeanddate.com.

Steve

Pollution and overpopulation are not just a problem here in the U.S. Please think globally.

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

The US Census Bureau estimates that the Earth's total population of 7 billion was reached on March 12, 2012. The United Nations estimate was for a few months earlier.

Do you believe that it is just a coincidence that The Renaissance occurred immediately following the Black Plague which reduced the world population from an estimated 450 million to between 350 and 375 million in the 14th century?

 

[thistlebloom]

Wow Oldguy.

"We need to quit saving the starving people..."
Who gets to decide who stays and who goes?

..."let nature take it's course..."
Does this mean that you will stop going to the Dr. to allow "nature" to take it's course? Will you be volunteering to be the beginning of this reduction?

I wonder if you have children.

I believe the worldview one holds will determine how a person would approach your question.
If we are the result of a cosmic accident and nothing more than a collection of carbon, here today and gone tomorrow, than what difference does it really make?

But if we are created by God, who demands something from us, including a wise stewardship of our home then our solutions do matter.

I know I didn't address your specific examples, I was stunned by your "solution".

 

[journey11]

Reduce population? Final Solution?

Final Solution...that's what Hitler called it, in case anyone missed that reference.

This is a slippery conversation folks...tread lightly here please.