Self-sufficiency . . . have you thought about it?

[sebrightlover]

I'll be gardening my own this year - and with my father in his yard - between the 2 we should have a pretty sustainable summer.

Does it count as self-sufficient if the chickens are at a friend's farm because I legally can't have them in the city and I'll be eating eggs and meat from them? weee waiting on the first butchered chickens this year!)

I gave up the job 30+ miles away to work 3 miles away (but I drive to work - I am too lazy to walk that far!)

If I had the means to - I'd raise a cow and butcher it - but no land to raise one. So we hunt and only kill what we can/will eat.

Would love to have solar panels - If I ever build my own home, we're going to go green.

 

[Reinbeau]

I don't see Pat as argumentative, I see her as realistic, and absolutely right. Back in the 40's people spent almost 50% of their income on food - and it was wholesome, non-chemical laden food. Today we spend less than 24% on additive laden, chemical contaminated garbage (I'm talking the average packaged stuff on every supermarket store shelf) that's making us sick by increasing the levels of adult onset diabetes, raising our cholesterol and just plain making us fat. If anyone wants to educate themselves on our food, I highly recommend reading The Omnivore's Dilemma: The Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan (he's just written a new one, In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto, I can't wait to read it).

 

[patandchickens]

The percentage of our parents income is irrelevent because we live in a different society with different expenses and different monetary needs.

I am curious as to what those are? I am entirely willing to believe I'm missing something here, but you need to tell me what it is.... to me, we still have the same expenses and monetary needs as ever, those being 'a roof over our heads', 'food to eat', 'water to drink' (well ok, that didn't used to be something you had to pay for, but it is not a big part of anyone's expenses, either), 'something to wear', 'a way of keeping warm in the winter', 'a way to get to work,' and 'a basic level of medical care'. Should probably add 'and savings against future need and retirement'.

Certainly many people spend money on things that would have been rare or unheard-of in the 1850's or 1950's. For instance spending a large chunk of income on christmas presents, yearly vacations, big spiff houses with new furniture and $10,000 kitchen remodels, $100 of toys per month for the kids, having your hair done once a month, eating out twice a week, that kind of thing. But that is DISCRETIONARY spending, not 'needs'.

The main difference I can see, and *maybe* this is what you are referring to?, is that people now expect that EVERYONE should be able to own a house (at the same time having Lotsa Stuff). This was not the case Way Back When. Now I'm not saying it's a bad idea for everyone to own a house - I think it is generally a good thing - but even nowadays, a house still has to fit in with the rest of the expenses, and for many many people it's not possible to do that AND keep up with what's become our societal assumptions about all the other things that 'need to' have money spent on them.

The worst that I can say is that, yeah, not all geographic regions *have* affordable houses enough for everyone (cities in particular!), so if you want to own a house and be reasonably solvent it may be necessary to move elsewhere. And even in the majority of relatively affordable housing markets (especially if you look at housing prices relative to salaries in the region), it is still generally necessary to scrimp and save much more severely than most people would wish to if you're going to be able to gracefully afford a nice house without an onerously large mortgage. But you know, it's always BEEN like that... the difference is just that it used to be that people WOULD often live like paupers for years in order to be able to afford houses, whereas now it is far far more popular to spend money on nice things, scrimp on cheap industrially-produced food, and have the nice house sooner rather than later. I'm not placing a value judgement on either of these things, I'm just saying that the playing field has not changed, only the strategies of the players, you know?

Signed,

Argumentative Pat (honest, I'm NOT trying to be argumentative if you mean just arguing for arguing's sake, though. I don't see why this isn't a reasonable topic for discussion, and yes, in discussion people often bring up a variety of viewpoints)

 

[Rosalind]

I would add a couple of things, based on the experiences of my cousins who have, like, one land-line phone per half-dozen farms:

You really do NEED to have a phone in case of emergency. I'm not saying it has to be a cell phone with all the photo and text messaging capabilities in the universe, I'm saying you need to have at least one telephone in your household, readily available, or else you have to accept that your emergency medical care WILL arrive late, possibly too late to apply the AED to your heart and start CPR. Also possibly too late to yank the breach baby out of you and stop your bleeding before you die in childbirth. In my area, it is not possible to purchase a land line phone service without also buying a huge package deal of all the other stuff the phone company offers. They do not have such things as the old Ma Bell land-line-only $20/month bare bones deals anymore--you are forced to get Caller ID, Call Waiting, voicemail, a whole bunch of other stuff.

Another thing: When I was younger, it was normal to have a paper resume or job application that you schlepped around. Everyone got a job like that, and all jobs were available by sending in a paper application. You found out about job openings by word of mouth and by advertising that was available to everyone (signs in windows, want ads in the paper). There are many many jobs nowadays that refuse to accept paper applications at all. For example, it's nearly impossible for me to find a job in my field without the internet, and very few HR departments in my field accept a paper application: Most major employers now want electronic applications that their software can screen for keywords and store in a database, that can be forwarded to The Hiring Team so that everyone gets a copy in three minutes. So I would say the internet has become a necessity, because it has replaced so many of the alternate means of getting work. Back in The Olden Days, there was a lot more than just one nuclear family living in any given household, and generally at least a few of them "went out" to work.

Which brings me to another point: We have a lot more individual households than we had way back when, too. My 3br house was built by an upper-middle-class land speculator for himself, his wife and his daughter, plus hired seasonal help. My grandparents' 4br house contained my grandparents, five kids, and my great-grandfather. My uncle's 5br house held grandparents, two aunties, my uncle, my dad, a couple of cousins, and a great-aunt, back in the day. It was not normal for anyone other than married couples to have a room to themselves, and they usually shared it with children while the kids were young. One household, while it consumed more food, nevertheless consumed a LOT less fuel--warming one house and supplying it with light, hot water, etc. is cheaper than the utilities for two. Cooking one big meal for many people uses less fuel than heating up the stove for a few people's worth of food. It's far more economical to live in a house with several adults contributing income and labor, but how many people nowadays do that?

Disclaimer: I would probably go insane if I had to live with most of my in-laws or my extended family. Heck, when my mother visits for more than 72 continuous hours, I'm ready to wring her neck. This is not something I wish to do, or would suggest to anyone who doesn't love their family very, very, VERY much. I'm just saying, when I add up my ability to be self-sufficient vs. the home economics of The Olden Days, this is a factor to be considered.

 

[digitS']

Excuse me, I'm going to have to throw out my rice casserole and pasta dish and call Pizza Hut for delivery . . .

I hope they don't put me on hold, Dad is going to be pulling up to the curb any minute!!

Steve

 

[miss_thenorth]

 

[homebody]

I am planning to increase the size of my garden this year so that I can preserve some to use in the cold months. Last year I canned salsa, froze tomatoes, and dehydrated tomatoes and packed them in olive oil with garlic to use in salads and pasta dishes. I plan to dehydrate more of the things I grow, and do some more canning. I also got some chickens last September, so my family can have fresh eggs.

Last year I grew tomatoes (about 6 varieties), green, yellow and red bell peppers, several varieties of hot peppers, zuchini, yellow squash, egg plants, cabbage, collard greens, green beans, cucumbers, honeydew melons, sunflowers, and various herbs.

I didn't get my pumpkins in and really missed them, so this year will grow pumpkins. I also want to plant corn, potatoes, onions, strawberries, and asparagus. I also grow many flowers, especially daylilies.

 

[Reinbeau]

I think the point is there is quite a lot going on in the world today that people mistake for 'necessary'. It's necessary to breathe. It's necessary to eat. It's necessary to have shelter. Because of the way society is set up, it's necessary to have a source of income to pay for the above. All of the rest of it is discretionary. Really, it is! You can live in a two room hovel with an outhouse, no problem. Is it a good quality existance? Depends on your point of view. If you're aim is to have the best of everything surrounding you then no, it isn't. If and when the SHTF (those of you who are into survivalism should know what that acronym means) your McMansion isn't going to do you any good, it will be a liability. Your internet connection, cell phone, all of what you think connects you to the world will fail. Could you live with that? Could you keep your family safe, fed, clothed, etc. if civilization crumbled around you? That is self-sufficiency.

Much of what's been discussed here has little to do with survival and lots to do with how we live now. For the most part we're soft. We've gone so far from being able to truly take care of ourselves it's scary. I say 'we' in a collective sense. If the SHTF I know we would get out of Dodge as fast as we can (Dodge being here in suburbia south of Boston) and head up to the house in Maine, where we don't have central heat, we heat via woodstove, we have our own well where we could draw water manually if we had to, and we've got stores to handle a long term siege. It would be a huge departure from what we have down here, but we could live pretty well for quite awhile. With planning, that 'quite awhile' could truly be that.

I hope it never comes to that, however!

 

[Txchikngardners]

In answer to the question in the title - Yes, we have thought of it and we know we are a long way from it.

I will say that we had a very good chance to test our self-sufficiency skills beginning on September 24, 2005 - the day Hurricane Rita came ashore less than 20 miles from our home. The eye passed directly over us (we had evacuated 2 days prior) and we returned to our home less than 20 hours after landfall.

We arrived to minimal damage to the house, but extensive damage to the the acreage - 7 extremely tall pine trees across the 300' driveway leading to the house and 6 large, 50-60 year old oak trees scattered throughout property. (still have firewood )

No electricity, no gasoline, no grocery stores - 100 degree temperatures- and that's just the beginning. I thank God every day that I am married to a survivalist - mostly because we didn't have to eat the MRE rations that the local Volunteer Fire Department was passing out the first few days - but also because he set up a makeshift washer so I could clean our clothes, set up a camp-style cook stove and -best of all -manned the generator (with what gasoline we managed to save before the storm actually hit) in an effort to keep food cold and to keep one bedroom cool on the 80 degree (plus) nights (oh - don't forget the humidity!!!).

We stored our canned and dried food in an 80' container we have on the property before the storm - Randy predicted that it would survive the storm and we would need the food as there would be no place to purchase any. He monitored the local meat markets for give-aways (never knew I'd get tired of eating rib-eyes - but I did!! :/ ) and the most of the garden goodies survived - tomatoes, bell peppers, banana peppers, cukes, squash, okra.

We ate well, we worked hard and we survived for weeks without the 'basic necessities' we were used to. I know we could do it again - and if we ever have to, we will.

That's my self-sufficiency story. No, we didn't make our own clothes or furniture - but we did make a good life for ourselves and the kids when others were forced to remain evacuated and away from their homes and jobs. (I work at a hospital and had to drive in every day to work - not an option: patient care is first priority - DH took care of things on the homefront and made a wonderful place for me to come home to in a ravaged land)

Brenda

 

[digitS']

Brenda, you have an 80 foot container?

I don't know anything about 80F nights either, I guess . But, an 80 foot container - is that like for grain storage?

Steve