Sooo, About That Straw Cover...

[so lucky]

I have pretty much decided that all the weed suppressing straw, newspaper, mulch, etc that I have used on my garden for lo, these many years has worsened my pest and disease issues.
So I decided to rake all the covering off and put it in the chicken yard, which is empty now, to use to suppress weed growth there. I'm about half way done, then we started getting lots of rain again. Should be able to get it scraped clean within a week, I think.
It occurred to me the other day that if I have disease in the straw, like early blight, it will remain in the straw for a few years. Maybe? Harlequin bug and blister bug eggs?
When I get chickens again I need to refrain from putting that chicken yard compost back on the garden for a couple years at least, I would guess, since the old straw and newspaper mulch is in there.
Should I leave the garden dirt just lie there, or till it this winter? Any other suggestions? I don't normally do this type of gardening, but I'm ready for a change.

 

[dickiebird]

I wonder f it would be a good thing to cover the area with black plastic for the winter?
Maybe the heat would kill off anything that may still be in the soil.

THANX RICH

 

[seedcorn]

Interesting. Worms eat all my left over straw. Don’t use newspaper as I don’t want those chemicals in my soil.

 

[catjac1975]

I have pretty much decided that all the weed suppressing straw, newspaper, mulch, etc that I have used on my garden for lo, these many years has worsened my pest and disease issues.
So I decided to rake all the covering off and put it in the chicken yard, which is empty now, to use to suppress weed growth there. I'm about half way done, then we started getting lots of rain again. Should be able to get it scraped clean within a week, I think.
It occurred to me the other day that if I have disease in the straw, like early blight, it will remain in the straw for a few years. Maybe? Harlequin bug and blister bug eggs?
When I get chickens again I need to refrain from putting that chicken yard compost back on the garden for a couple years at least, I would guess, since the old straw and newspaper mulch is in there.
Should I leave the garden dirt just lie there, or till it this winter? Any other suggestions? I don't normally do this type of gardening, but I'm ready for a change.

I have pretty much decided that all the weed suppressing straw, newspaper, mulch, etc that I have used on my garden for lo, these many years has worsened my pest and disease issues.
So I decided to rake all the covering off and put it in the chicken yard, which is empty now, to use to suppress weed growth there. I'm about half way done, then we started getting lots of rain again. Should be able to get it scraped clean within a week, I think.
It occurred to me the other day that if I have disease in the straw, like early blight, it will remain in the straw for a few years. Maybe? Harlequin bug and blister bug eggs?
When I get chickens again I need to refrain from putting that chicken yard compost back on the garden for a couple years at least, I would guess, since the old straw and newspaper mulch is in there.
Should I leave the garden dirt just lie there, or till it this winter? Any other suggestions? I don't normally do this type of gardening, but I'm ready for a change.

I used to use leaves for mulch for weed control. That was when I had uncontrollable squash bugs. My chickens forage in the vegetable garden all winter when the last harvest is done and before the first planting in spring. I have very little pest problems.

 

[flowerbug]

Mom hates any surface mulching/cover/plant debris left from the previous season left on top of the ground. she wants to see bare dirt. thinks that anything else is untidy looking.

i think the best look is actually a nice cover crop which gets turned under in the spring several weeks before planting.

you will find that this is the best use of the winter season, you get to harvest free energy from the sun, it helps suppress weeds and it adds all those root fibers and plant fibers to the soil along with any organic compounds the plants make and give off. the worms and rest of the soil community will like it too.

for best results change your cover crops around from year to year among the various plant familys (legumes, grasses, broad leafed crops) so the plants are using and cycling somewhat different nutrients. what can be used as cover crops works differently for different areas. for our location we can't over-winter much of anything so if i can cover crop buckwheat in the fall then that gets knocked back eventually by the cold, turnips and similar some may survive if i can keep the deer/rabbits from eating them.

i don't have disease problems from cardboard and woodchips, but i rarely use those on a full vegetable garden until the woodchips are mostly broken down anyways and by then it's brown humus. we use the cardboard layers and woodchips for smothering areas and eventually by the time things are broken down enough i scrape them up and use them in the heavy clay soil of the veggie gardens.

we don't keep chickens or any other animals other than the worms so i don't have any experience with that, but the birds sure like to pick around in the gardens and any sandy areas get used as dustbath spots or semi-feral kitty dumping spots. not that i encourage the kitties to do that... another reason why i like some ground cover though...

 

[digitS']

I have had problems with mulch but not quite been able to take a completely informed attitude towards it.

First off, using mulch to suppress weeds that reproduce by rhizomes isn't always successful. They travel. How far and wide of an area am I covering? A 2' wide path sure isn't enough for quackgrass or bindweed. How deep? Those roots can survive for months and grow through several inches of material.

The material isn't all equal, and that is probably a good thing. There is a great number of different mulches. Just the number of tree species that could be used for wood chips would take a lifetime to research. And, mulch of the same species/family as the garden plants ... is that a good idea, or not??. I bet that in far more than half the cases, it is not. Yes, diseases and pests.

Finally, how geographically broad can advice be? If your garden and environment has 40" of precipitation each year and mine has 15" ... If your garden and environment has 2 months of freezing temperatures and mine has 7 ... If your garden and environment has 8 hours of direct sunlight during the growing season and mine has 14 hours ...

It's true with everything but using 2 tons of material on 1,000 sqft of ground ... that can be a dramatic difference, even from what the gardener next door is doing.

I have not always had much choice. I have assumed that, like @flowerbug 's mother, the neighbors and often property owners of my garden space would prefer to see bare ground during the 6 months that I'm not there growing plants. Ya know, fresh air and sunlight have some benefits for garden soil.

Steve

 

[Beekissed]

I've definitely experienced WAY more pest bugs since using mulch and no till gardening than I ever did while tilling. And no more increase in crop yields either, as I always used the hay mulch around the plants anyway to retain moisture and suppress weeds.

I wish now I hadn't sold the big tiller because, in hindsight, I think the best of both worlds would have been to till at the end of the season~the hay all having mulched down enough to do so by the end of Oct. and beginning of Nov~let the soils be exposed all winter and then lay down a good thick layer of hay again by the end of Feb.

The tilling would have put the last of the hay under the surface where the earthworms can still access it~tilling in hay isn't as harmful to the nitrogen levels as tilling in wood chips would be~and it would have exposed all the pest bug larva to the chickens/wild birds and the cold~which is the main benefit of tilling in my area.

In that manner I could still have the benefit of the soil building of the deep mulch but also the benefit of the tilling to help prevent large numbers of pest bugs.

I do still have a Mantis tiller I could use for this and may do so if we continue with the warmer weather we've been having. It would be a neat little experiment to see if that reduces the numbers of squash bugs for next season.

 

[catjac1975]

I have had problems with mulch but not quite been able to take a completely informed attitude towards it.

First off, using mulch to suppress weeds that reproduce by rhizomes isn't always successful. They travel. How far and wide of an area am I covering? A 2' wide path sure isn't enough for quackgrass or bindweed. How deep? Those roots can survive for months and grow through several inches of material.

The material isn't all equal, and that is probably a good thing. There is a great number of different mulches. Just the number of tree species that could be used for wood chips would take a lifetime to research. And, mulch of the same species/family as the garden plants ... is that a good idea, or not??. I bet that in far more than half the cases, it is not. Yes, diseases and pests.

Finally, how geographically broad can advice be? If your garden and environment has 40" of precipitation each year and mine has 15" ... If your garden and environment has 2 months of freezing temperatures and mine has 7 ... If your garden and environment has 8 hours of direct sunlight during the growing season and mine has 14 hours ...

It's true with everything but using 2 tons of material on 1,000 sqft of ground ... that can be a dramatic difference, even from what the gardener next door is doing.

I have not always had much choice. I have assumed that, like @flowerbug 's mother, the neighbors and often property owners of my garden space would prefer to see bare ground during the 6 months that I'm not there growing plants. Ya know, fresh air and sunlight have some benefits for garden soil.

Steve

All good points. Especially the geographically appropriateness of any advice.

 

[catjac1975]

I've definitely experienced WAY more pest bugs since using mulch and no till gardening than I ever did while tilling. And no more increase in crop yields either, as I always used the hay mulch around the plants anyway to retain moisture and suppress weeds.

I wish now I hadn't sold the big tiller because, in hindsight, I think the best of both worlds would have been to till at the end of the season~the hay all having mulched down enough to do so by the end of Oct. and beginning of Nov~let the soils be exposed all winter and then lay down a good thick layer of hay again by the end of Feb.

The tilling would have put the last of the hay under the surface where the earthworms can still access it~tilling in hay isn't as harmful to the nitrogen levels as tilling in wood chips would be~and it would have exposed all the pest bug larva to the chickens/wild birds and the cold~which is the main benefit of tilling in my area.

In that manner I could still have the benefit of the soil building of the deep mulch but also the benefit of the tilling to help prevent large numbers of pest bugs.

I do still have a Mantis tiller I could use for this and may do so if we continue with the warmer weather we've been having. It would be a neat little experiment to see if that reduces the numbers of squash bugs for next season.

I would get another tiller. I see them on craiglist all of the time. Sometimes they have never been used. An unneeded gift perhaps.

 

[Beekissed]

I would get another tiller. I see them on craiglist all of the time. Sometimes they have never been used. An unneeded gift perhaps.

I can't see using the money on something we only use once per year. The rear tine tillers, which are the only kind that can break through this clay effectively, are around $400-&600 used and $700 new.

The Mantis isn't really designed for that kind of tilling but we already own it and I know it won't till too deeply, which is a bonus. Downside is that it may not till deeply enough to excavate the squash bugs hibernating there...it may, though, as they are supposedly only up to 6 in. down. In this softer, more tillable soil created by all the wood chip and hay compost, I could very well unearth plenty of the bugs to the cold. Don't know if the chickens will eat them, though, as they have a bad odor/flavor.