Strawbale gardens

[catjac1975]

Seed, can you explain this further? What causes it to affect germination?
I used wheat straw in the garden last year, and as I said germination of seeds was very spotty, and transplants of tomatoes and peppers didn't flourish. An understatement.

I popped those bales and spread them around in the garden last fall. There are oodles of earthworms under them when you lift up a few flakes and take a peek. But it's far too much straw to try to plant in and I was planning on removing a lot of it, and keeping the remainder in the aisles (going for wide beds) and once the plants are up using some for mulch.
Do you think this could be a problem?
Would barley straw have worked better than the wheat in hindsight?

Not that I'll be using bales ever again, I'm just wondering if most of the issues were because they were wheat straw.

You said you will not use them ever again. Not a success?

 

[thistlebloom]

You said you will not use them ever again. Not a success?

No. Mine was underwhelming. But others did great, so I'm just going to sit here and develop a complex about it.

 

[seedcorn]

1). If they used high levels of salt over years, yes. But they don't. It's sprayed on the foliage. It kills the plants but insects, deer, etc, like salt. They eat part of it. Not really a very common practice except for commercial tomatoes. It may be 5+ years before land grows tomatoes again so, no build up. I don't know rates.

2). Why wheat stubble kills germination? Don't know why, it just does. I put down 3-5" of straw mulch down in garden, by spring, worms have consumed 90%. Before I noticed it, I blamed wife of raking and burning. Farmer can bale the straw and right behind the combine, beans will struggle. Some think pathogens, some think the fine particles coming out, suffocate the soil. Any fiber source will be attacked by microbes that will tie up all nitrogen that they need to break down fiber.

3). Soil temperature differences encourage germination. Mulch stabilizes soil temps, ties up nitrogen (not really) so plants will struggle early.

4). No information on barley. I can get info if someone needs it. Work with a really smart agronomist.

Apologize for War & Peace.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Here’s an article on how grain crops are dessicated for harvest in parts of Europe.

http://www.glyphosate.eu/system/fil...ion_of_pre-harvest_uses_of_glyphsate_en_0.pdf

Here’s one from Canada

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/faq7206?opendocument

And one from Texas

http://texaswheat.org/glyphosate-treated-wheat-claims-vs-facts.html

And an excerpt from the Texas article. Note it says a very small percentage.

“Although Roundup is labeled for pre-harvest applications, there is a standard pre-harvest interval (PHI) of at least seven to 14 days before harvest can take place, if the herbicide is applied to the wheat crop. Glyphosate, the active ingredient of Roundup, is used to control perennial weeds, although a very small percentage of producers also use it as a desiccant to evenly ripen a field of wheat for harvest.”

Sorry @seedcorn it is a process that is used. It’s not a standard practice most places, most US places are dry enough that they don’t need help getting the wheat to dry fairly evenly for harvest. In cool wet areas though they sometimes need help. A bigger use is to kill weeds before harvest, as wet green weeds could cause problems in curing the wheat. It seems more common in Europe and Canada, but North Dakota was mentioned in a couple of articles I read.

Studies show that if the wheat has reached 30% moisture content the active ingredient does not enter the wheat grain, it’s already matured so the plant is not putting any more nutrients or anything else in it.

I didn’t know this much about it until today’s research. What I remembered was that a certain University in the Pacific Northwest used an herbicide on wheat (probably experimenting with dessicants) and gave away or sold that straw as mulch. It killed plants. I saw the product they used but that was year ago. Best I can remember it was not Round-up.

 

[seedcorn]

@Ridgerunner nothing to be sorry about. I learned something as wheat is grown/handled much different there than east of Mississippi? Good info.

Here, once head set, nothing goes on wheat.

 

[Collector]

@Ridgerunner nothing to be sorry about. I learned something as wheat is grown/handled much different there than east of Mississippi? Good info.

Here, once head set, nothing goes on wheat.

I know that some local farmers around here have used roundup to prepare wheat for harvest in wet seasons. But I did not know about the issues using straw on the garden.
I was thinking of using straw on the garden this fall to help break up the clay soil on this new garden. Going to have to rethink what I'm going to do about it. Great info .

 

[seedcorn]

Worms will digest a lot of residue. If you look at my pix, I cover mine. It's gone by spring.

You might want to consider a cover crop. Their roots break up clay.

 

[thistlebloom]

I know that some local farmers around here have used roundup to prepare wheat for harvest in wet seasons. But I did not know about the issues using straw on the garden.
I was thinking of using straw on the garden this fall to help break up the clay soil on this new garden. Going to have to rethink what I'm going to do about it. Great info .

I have a source for oat straw that I bought as bedding one year. It is farmed locally and I like it much better than wheat straw. It seems to be not as rigid of a shaft and breaks down faster. The horses loved it because it was like a treasure hunt looking for stray oat heads.

....I don't know, are they called heads?

I don't know if they applied anything to the standing crop before harvest, but I had no problems from it in the garden. It broke down fast in the manure pile. You might want to locate oat straw this summer.

 

[Collector]

I have a source for oat straw that I bought as bedding one year. It is farmed locally and I like it much better than wheat straw. It seems to be not as rigid of a shaft and breaks down faster. The horses loved it because it was like a treasure hunt looking for stray oat heads.

....I don't know, are they called heads?

I don't know if they applied anything to the standing crop before harvest, but I had no problems from it in the garden. It broke down fast in the manure pile. You might want to locate oat straw this summer.

I'm definitely going to look into it this new garden is pure clay. Been putting everything we have on it but it hasn't been much so far. I was hoping to put straw on it this fall and till it in when next spring comes.

 

[canesisters]

First 10 down.
View attachment 11949

I laid a big tarp down, lined up the bales on it, then covered it in some of the sawdust I've got laying around in bags. The outside sawdust is darker because it's wet.
Now just need the t-posts and wire trellis'.

View attachment 11950

That was LAST summer.. this summer's garden didn't get going and is still in it's little paper envelopes. However - I've been doing a lot of reading this summer and making plans. That's what gardeners without a garden are SUPPOSED to do, right?
My 'test' SBG did GREAT last summer and I intend to get a larger version of that going around March. I've still got a source for local rye straw, and that seemed to work well for me.
I've possibly got a spotty source for wood chips - and a steady source for sawdust - so I'm already taking steps to try and start a BTE garden too. I always get confused with the 'green'/'brown' thing. Is manure green or brown??? No really. If I'm adding it to sawdust (from a cabinet shop) it's 'green' - right?? I was thinking of putting the cows to work (and relieving some heat stress) and keeping them in a few days a week. Cleaning the stalls will give me a good mix of sawdust/manure/hay.
Feed bag weed barrier under manure/sawdust/hay mix under sawdust mulch..?

One thing I WILL NOT be doing is putting a tarp under the SBG... that thing rotted into the ground just enough that I can't get it up but not so much that the mower doesn't regularly suck it up and stalling out with a gob of tarp wrapped around the blade!