The 2014 Little Easy Bean Network - Get New Beans On The Cheap

[Ridgerunner]

@Bluejay77 I don't know if I want to even try wrapping my head around that maternal seed coat color being passed down an additional generation. I under sex linked traits but from what you are saying it would not matter if it is a dominant or recessive trait so straightforward sexlinked does not explain it. And I'd expect that seed coat color would not be just one gene pair but several. This is another reason I'm an engineer, not a biologist. Engineering is simple and straightforward.

 

[buckabucka]

All this information is very interesting. I had no idea beans could be so complicated. It is strange that it takes two years for new seed coat color to show up in the cross!

I had to dig out my 2012 map to see what beans I grew that year:
Black coco
True red cranberry
Northeaster pole bean
Romano bush bean (the latter two for fresh eating)
I also grew two kinds of soybeans, but I think I read somewhere that they don't cross with the other beans (correct?).

The new mottled bean outcross grew on this year's true red cranberry plant.
The brownish bean outcross is a little more complicated. They came from an area where black coco and cannellini were planted very close together, and since I just picked the dry pods and threw them in a basket, I don't know which row they came from. To complicate matters more, my husband planted a whole row of cranberry bean, and then upon learning that it is a pole bean, he dug up all the seeds and replanted that row with cannellini. I think that the black coco is the mother plant though, unless Fedco is using some cannellini growers that aren't isolating their bean varieties, or the very slim chance that the ONE cranberry bean that got left behind in the cannellini row turned out to be an outcross. I did not find any stray cranberry beans in the cannellini row, despite the initial planting accident.

Anyway, I am enjoying the mystery beans and learning along the way.

 

[baymule]

@buckabucka those cranberry beans are so pretty!

 

[journey11]

I got seed from a single "Snow Cap" plant this year that was very obvious what the cross was on it. It looks exactly like the seed coat on a Top Crop, but the seed is the much larger size of the original Snow Cap. They were planted side by side.

I also got an interesting black speckled tan F2 seed this year that came out from the black "Ora's Speckled" F1 seeds I grew out for fun this year. The original Ora's Speckled are a light brown with dark brown speckled seed coat. I've grown them for 5 years now and always got true seed before. I also had a pure white seed come out in the same planting as the black F1s. The white came out white again, and still a greasy cut short. The black F1 seed that yielded the black speckled seeds this year on both years produced speckled pods and maintained their greasy cut short form. I only grew two other beans that year in question, both with white seeds, not cut short. It's probable that the white version is an outcross with one of the other two Appalachian pole beans I grew previously (guess that would have been crossed in 2012 or earlier), but I suspect the black (F1) and black speckled (F2) beans are a segregation, so I'll grow the black speckled out next year for fun and see what I get this time. I'll be happy as long as they keep the cut short trait.

(F1 seed from 2013)

I've been experimenting with successive plantings of sunflowers to see if that will keep the mason bees off of the beans since they love the sunflowers so much more and go nuts for them. It would take years to find out for sure, but luckily I can never have too many sunflowers.

It's my practice now to keep good notes and to scan pics of the seeds I get. Comes in very handy later.

 

[897tgigvib]

Oh boy Journey! A black and a white seeded Ora's Speckled! Awesome possum!

I'm running out of arms and legs to trade for outcrosses, but I have some beans I can trade for a few of those!

Edited to add:

I think the Buxton Buckshot I have would do much better in your climate and garden then in mine. It's an east coast variety, I think from Maine. They make tiny little cutshort pods, the kind that you let fatten up before picking to make beans n bacon for breakfast with. Pretty little pods dark green with heavy markings of purple stripes. She's a pole bean that for me makes thin vine stems to 9 feet, and the leaves are on the small side. Tiny little cutshort seeds colored similar to normal Ora's Speckled. Not very productive for me here. I think she needs humid air, not sure.
Also, Snow Star is breeding true. You'll like her. She makes nice fat Appalachian pods of the greasy sort, but I'd say more like semi greasy. Grows nicely and vigorously, good n healthy.

Another one you'll enjoy is Black Supernova Snap Pod. New variety, and new segregation coming out of Black Supernova, so it may still segregate some. Colorful Appalachian type pods, more the Cornfield sort, not greasy. Experiment to find her best stage for eating the pods, plus the dry beans look good for chile. They are black. The pods are shades of green and purple, dark n colorful. Multipurpose type for sure. Vigorous heavy vines to 10 feet.

Need more coffee in me to remember the other Appalachian kinds I have, but, ooo!

=====

Air is dry here in the heat of summer, and just seems that some Appalachian varieties don't like that. Those deserve a better home, but I'll continue trying with them also. Who knows but they might select through and adapt to my conditions as survival of the fittest.

But the Ora's Speckled do well here.

Oh! The Nickell variety has one survivor plant this year, and she's making real fine greasy pods, super tender! Nickell is definitely different than

Wide Podded White Greasy Half Runner. I'll send you some of those too! You'll like them! They came out of the SALLEE/DUNAHOO FAMILY WHITE GREASY which turned out to be a big mix of varieties that family group had been growing for decades or centuries in east Kentucky. Wide Pod White Greasy is a true breeding selection from that. Vigorous heavy half runner mostly to 5 foot, good leaves, makes almost romano type pods nice and wide medium green, tender but string them anyway, to 7 inches. Good for cutting up before making into your favorite snap recipe.

Noe I have both cats on my lap!

 

[Blue-Jay]

F1 and F2 seeds look just like the seed mother no changes in color or pattern. You don't yet realize you have a cross. New seed color or pattern don't begin until F3 when it comes to the seeds of beans. Segregations in the seeds don't begin until F4 and can go to F11 or beyond. Other plant characteristics are different. Changes in pods, blossom color, height of plant, coloring of leaves, ruffling of leaves, weather the is plant is a half runner or true bush can all show up in the F1 generation.

 

[journey11]

F1 and F2 seeds look just like the seed mother no changes in color or pattern. You don't yet realize you have a cross. New seed color or pattern don't begin until F3 when it comes to the seeds of beans. Segregations in the seeds don't begin until F4 and can go to F11 or beyond. Other plant characteristics are different. Changes in pods, blossom color, height of plant, coloring of leaves, ruffling of leaves, weather the is plant is a half runner or true bush can all show up in the F1 generation.

Now I'm all confused. This is the first year I've taken detailed notes on the plant's characteristics, so other than what I have from memory, I'm not sure about any other changes in the Ora's Speckled. For the most part the plant looked just like it always had, but I may have missed something. It's my intention to keep better data from now on. I took good notes this year. Last year and this year were the only times it had thrown any difference in seed coat. Could have been crossed up in Bill Best's field, I'm sure. I bought them here back in 2009. Up until 2013's garden when I grew out a couple new ones for you, I only had 3 beans I was growing.

Let me see if I can get this right... You have the original parents...mother plant and pollen from father plant. Their offspring is F1. Those seeds still look exactly like mama. You plant those, but maybe plant characteristics change. F1 plant yields F2 seed...still no change in seed coat? You plant F2 seed and the plant may exhibit more changes. It yields F3 seed which MAY look different in the seed. Which would make my black cut shorts F3s. And the black speckled are F4s then. How far out would you have to go to hope to stabilize a new variety?

@marshallsmyth , You sent me some of your Wide Pod White Greasy beans last time and they did great for me this year. We enjoyed eating them and I'll plant them again next year. I'll be glad to send you some of the black speckled Ora's, but who knows what they'll do next. I also had a bumper crop from your Powder Stars. I just picked dry pods from them yesterday and I'll get a pic for you when they've dried down a bit so you can see how they look.

I know what you mean about how some may or may not like your growing conditions. I can grow different varieties side by side under the exact same conditions and one will do great and the other may not set a decent looking or viable pod. I always give them a second chance though. Most that I planted this year did fine, but there were a couple varieties that just did not care for how wet summer can be here.

I've really enjoyed all of the new beans I got to experiment with this summer, but my interest does lean more toward the Appalachian varieties. My dream is to help start a seed lending library in my community and I want to base it off of regional heirloom varieties (tomatoes and beans) for the most part. I'm going to offer some of what I already have to the 4-H program this year too. I'm still in the learning and planning stage right now and I need to get my Master Gardener's certification first too, because it would be a good platform to work from and help with networking. I've learned so much from you all and your extensive knowledge. The Easy Bean Network has really been a blessing to me.

 

[journey11]

I just noticed on Sustainable Mountain Agriculture's website that they are hosting an annual seed swap this Saturday. I think I am probably the closest by at a 3.5 hour drive, but I thought I'd mention it in case it was of interest to anyone else here. I may be in for a roadtrip this weekend.

 

[Smart Red]

@journey11, get some special things to share and I'll chip in for a gallon of gas.

 

[897tgigvib]

Journey, there will be some very special and important seed savers there. One guy is a bean collector trying to build his collection back up after losing a lot of it in a flood. I think you'll find lots of very special things at it, and likely meet some very important people there!

Go if you can! Please!