the Hijack dodge

Zeedman

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Here is a quote from a chapter I read in this book by Carol Deppe "Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties":

"There is an extensive hybrid seed industry for tomatoes, even though they don't display inbreeding depression and thus there is no special biological advantage to the hybrids."

I was a little surprised that Zeedman didn't refer to this book by Ms Deppe and was wondering if she was wrong about this. I've wondered if she was wrong for a good 5 years, I suppose. Now, I'm wondering if she isn't absolutely right! But yes, I do have some hybrids that do wonderfully for me.

Steve
The fact that tomatoes do not suffer from inbreeding depression, should not IMO be misconstrued to imply that they could not be improved via hybridization. (And this coming from someone who generally dislikes hybrids.)

As you probably suspected, @digitS' , I do have Carol's book, and consider it to be the best introduction to plant breeding for amateurs. She provides a lot of good general breeding info, and in-depth info about several species. I still have post-it notes attached to some of the pages I found most useful... but as of yet, I've only lightly dabbled in breeding. That may change when I retire in a few years, if my health holds up.

I certainly would not wish to disagree with Carol, but I have to confess that the statement you quoted has me puzzled. As @seedcorn mentioned, there are both dominant & recessive genes. In a stable homozygous variety, the recessive genes can only be expressed because they are paired with another recessive. Different varieties will have different dominant & recessive genes. When you cross two varieties, genes which were present as both dominant & recessive in the parents will contribute one of each to the F1 generation - and since the dominant genes will be expressed, the F1 will show more dominant traits than either parent. One would think that this higher number of dominant traits could produce a stronger plant... hence, "hybrid vigor". I have actually used that concept to reduce the incidence of crosses in my seedlings; if one plant is noticeably more vigorous than the rest of the population, I destroy it. I know this policy flies in the face of conventional wisdom, which recommends that you save seed from the strongest plant... but I am trying to preserve varieties as they are, not breed new ones.

It is also worth mentioning that just because a trait is dominant doesn't automatically make it desirable. Most of the tomato crosses I've seen, while very vigorous plants, had smaller fruit of poor quality. Often the recessive traits are what makes a particular vegetable enjoyable. Sweet corn is a great example (although corn genetics are more complicated).

@digitS' sorry, that’s how many lines they may start with within a family every year. This is all they do. Most plant breeders are looking for parent lines to make F1’s with for better production. Most plant breeders don’t want a standard line as people will just replicate without paying the breeder fee.

(added emphasis mine) That was the reason that in the past, so many open-pollinated varieties were developed in publicly-funded breeding programs at land-grant colleges... back in the days when they served the public good. Open-pollinated varieties are still being bred, and the rights of the breeder are protected by the PVP patent program. It is easier & more profitable, though, for a company to protect hybrids, since saving seed that is true-to-type is virtually impossible & new seed must be purchased each year.

@digitS' , Carol Deppe has another quote that I often find useful in discussion:

“To save seeds is to complete the circle. When we save seeds, we are plant breeders, choosing which germplasm to perpetuate.”

That quote is from another of Carol's books, "The Resilient Gardener, Food Production and Self Reliance in Uncertain Times", but I know she had a similar quote in "Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties"... that all seed saving is breeding, regardless of our intentions.
 

canesisters

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Might try playing music so the tomatoes can jam.

Turnip the beet!
orjnfq[1].gif
 

Rhodie Ranch

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Well well well. This certainly became a serious thread about tomatoes. I thought we were supposed to hijack it. Like my tomatoes that are still sitting in the garage slowly dehydrating cus I can't stand to look at them anymore. At least they are not rotting.
 

canesisters

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Well well well. This certainly became a serious thread about tomatoes. I thought we were supposed to hijack it. Like my tomatoes that are still sitting in the garage slowly dehydrating cus I can't stand to look at them anymore. At least they are not rotting.


... I tried ;)

Speaking of dehydrating tomatoes - I think I asked this before - but does anyone make their own tomato powder?
 

Ridgerunner

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... I tried ;)

Speaking of dehydrating tomatoes - I think I asked this before - but does anyone make their own tomato powder?

Interesting thought. I'm not sure how well you could grind up dehydrated tomatoes to make a powder. Would they instead make a gummy mess? It might work better if you remove the seeds before you dehydrate them.
 

flowerbug

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... I tried ;)

Speaking of dehydrating tomatoes - I think I asked this before - but does anyone make their own tomato powder?

i've not ever done anything like that. tomato juice or chunks is good enough. takes too much energy or time to go further for little gain IMO. with free sunlight/energy/heat it might be good to do, but i think i'd rather use the energy for something else if i had it (pumping water uphill so it could be used later to generate electricity again or to run a mill or ...).
 

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