The Mess

[digitS']

I sprayed weed killer a couple of days ago on the thistle-infested area that was left after the neighbor and I had planted our 2019 crops. Many of the weeds looked like they were on their way out so I took a picture this morning then went to work with the rototiller.

View attachment 32388
The ground was tilled weeks and weeks ago, the ground has been regularly watered and some weeds looked like they would set seeds soon. I stepped it off and it's 25' by 40'.

The tilling approach was my "down and dirty" one. The tractor guy left several areas of almost ditches and potholes. It would have required more work than I wanted to put into it to get everything below ground. So, I left a mess and didn't take a picture of that (the one above is BAD enuf!)

My last pass was after about 3# of black oil sunflower seed was thrown about. I think that I got t it underground well enough. Next, we will see what the critters do with the sprouts . They are popular, I know.

Weed suppression is my goal and tilling again after several months will be needed. I haven't used sunflowers like this before. I hope it works.

Steve

 

[thistlebloom]

I can't see your picture Steve.
That's an interesting idea for a weed suppresion crop, if they make it to bloom stage it should be real pretty!

 

[digitS']

That's because the entire post was first in the "What did You Do" thread ... but, I was embarrassed to be discussing making a mess . Still, I hope it will go a ways to making the garden look good.

The attachment was already uploaded. I just grabbed the entire post to put it here. The attachment didn't follow. Oops.

Also, I'm using a new Google Pixel phone ... yikes!

Steve

 

[flowerbug]

good luck! sunflower sprouts and seeds will certainly get action here from the chippies, deer, rabbits, groundhogs... i suppose i should just call them the Herbivores and come up with a song and a finger dance for them.

 

[digitS']

Two weeks:


I'm not really sure why the sprouts appear almost row by row. I just ran over the ground quickly with the tiller on what I tried to make an even sprinkle. I suspect that it means that the tines pushed a lot of the seeds too deep. Oh well, it looks like they were left alone by the birds and emerged well enuf to cover the ground.

The weeds were not killed 100%, that's for sure. I walked in carefully and pulled a few by hand of those flowering. Also, looked as carefully as I could for bindweed and thistles.

By the way, this morning, I got many of those weeds by and beyond the sprinkler pipe . That's a spading fork and long-handled cultivator over there. And that's my second sowing of bush beans nearest the pipe.

Steve

 

[digitS']

It was a little taller than I had wanted for the rototiller to deal with. These knee-high sunflowers were knocked down hard but they were certainly not tilled into the soil. At best, they are now mulch and fresh seed has filtered down where it needs to be and it will sprout and grow properly.

Weed suppression wasn't 100%. Sow thistle and pigweed, beaten and bruised, will have to be suppressed by this second sowing of sunflower seeds.

Or, not ...

Steve

 

[flowerbug]

View attachment 32790

It was a little taller than I had wanted for the rototiller to deal with. These knee-high sunflowers were knocked down hard but they were certainly not tilled into the soil. At best, they are now mulch and fresh seed has filtered down where it needs to be and it will sprout and grow properly.

Weed suppression wasn't 100%. Sow thistle and pigweed, beaten and bruised, will have to be suppressed by this second sowing of sunflower seeds.

Or, not ...

Steve

i can't imagine tilling sow thistle being very good method of removal... tilling and then raking out the broken root bits may help, but tilling would break those roots into so many pieces... *shudder* waiting for them to break the surface and spraying with glyphosate in such a large area is about the easiest way. then going back about 10 days later and repeating the application and then again might get most of them and then you could return to trying to control it all manually again. still will take a few years...

i dig them all out by hand, very carefully tracking down the roots. it works, but yes, it is time consuming. keeping any new plants that show up scraped so they cannot flower and spread seeds and removing all of them we see on sight is helping us keep it under control here. we've cleared some major infestations (they are almost impossible to weed from irises in clay unless you're willing to lift each plant and inspect every root) over the years. they are now on the "Remove completely when seen" list. i react so badly to the smell of the sap that i have to make sure i figure the wind when dealing with them.

last week had a visit from a relative who hunts deer and he was speaking of how he planted hundreds of sunflower seeds and had them all growing in his feed plot to attract deer. it worked very well, as when they all reached about 18" the deer ate the tops off every single one of them. he says he might hunt here this fall/winter with his bow. we'll be glad to have him. i don't think he really knows what he's getting into back there though. he may decide not to once he sees the poison ivy and other hazards... we'll see what happens...

 

[digitS']

We may not be thinking of the same "sow thistle" weed, @flowerbug .

This is an annual. I figure that I just have to keep it from setting seeds and both times the rototiller went over it just as it had just begun to flower.

There were so many tall plants this time that tilling just broke and bruised everything. The drag bar captured a mess in every 40' run. The tines broke and stripped plants in one direction, then broke and stripped in the other. Probably, only the sunflowers were killed anywhere near 100%. Mulch now, but, hopefully, allowing the fresh sunflower seeds to emerge through it. I didn't sprinkle the seed until the other growing plants were flattened.

I'm not really trying too hard to make this wonderful soil for 2020. I didn't need this ground in 2019 and neither did the neighbor. It's kinda too bad that it is located between our gardens but that's how things are. The tractor guy can till it thoroughly before we are back in 2020.

It would be great if I can get away with this casual remedy for controlling weeds on unused ground. Laying it bare with weed killer or .... someone should have been tilling regularly from early spring. Didn't happen, so all those weeds had a head start.

Of course, cover crops could have been planted from the earliest spring days. I like this cover crop/green manure idea. Of course, ground has to be held out of veggie production as the gardener invests in cover cropping and tilling those plants into the soil. However, ~ in life, everything is timing ~

Steve

 

[flowerbug]

We may not be thinking of the same "sow thistle" weed, @flowerbug .

This is an annual. I figure that I just have to keep it from setting seeds and both times the rototiller went over it just as it had just begun to flower.

There were so many tall plants this time that tilling just broke and bruised everything. The drag bar captured a mess in every 40' run. The tines broke and stripped plants in one direction, then broke and stripped in the other. Probably, only the sunflowers were killed anywhere near 100%. Mulch now, but, hopefully, allowing the fresh sunflower seeds to emerge through it. I didn't sprinkle the seed until the other growing plants were flattened.

I'm not really trying too hard to make this wonderful soil for 2020. I didn't need this ground in 2019 and neither did the neighbor. It's kinda too bad that it is located between our gardens but that's how things are. The tractor guy can till it thoroughly before we are back in 2020.

It would be great if I can get away with this casual remedy for controlling weeds on unused ground. Laying it bare with weed killer or .... someone should have been tilling regularly from early spring. Didn't happen, so all those weeds had a head start.

Of course, cover crops could have been planted from the earliest spring days. I like this cover crop/green manure idea. Of course, ground has to be held out of veggie production as the gardener invests in cover cropping and tilling those plants into the soil. However, ~ in life, everything is timing ~

Steve

we have several different kinds of it here but this is one of them:

https://www.minnesotawildflowers.info/flower/perennial-sowthistle

Note: "This species is a rapid colonizer from deep, extensive underground root systems."

as i clear this weed by hand in clay i can verify all aspects of that description... and any little bit of root can regrow quite a ways to form a new plant so to clear it from an area completely may take several sessions.

 

[digitS']

I'm fairly sure that it is:

https://www.minnesotawildflowers.info/flower/spiny-sowthistle

The "common" certainly looks more genteel ... A neighbor has completely allowed about a thousand square feet of Italian thistle grow and go to seed! Thankfully, prevailing winds shouldn't carry them into the garden.

https://www.minnesotawildflowers.info/flower/canada-thistle grows just a few dozen feet north of the garden. Nothing has been done with the ground there for about 5 years. Hopefully, prevailing winds ... oh! Who am I kidding!?

Steve

Edit:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carduus_pycnocephalus
Americans should really be careful about naming things for other locations and people. We should have learned that lesson when the American military carried an influenza epidemic into Europe during World War 1.

At least, "Italian" thistle grew in Italy before it grew in the Americas. And, my grandfather was Canadian!