Worms

Rhodie Ranch

Garden Master
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
3,521
Reaction score
5,711
Points
333
Location
Southern Washington State, 8b
Where we've moved, we were told to spray a particular brand of broad leaf killer on our pasture to discourage moles. Sure enough, the former owner musta sprayed cus there are no moles out there. Prob no earthworms either, which is the primary diet of my moles here. Lots of moles up around the house and in the beds.
 

meadow

Deeply Rooted
Joined
Jan 2, 2022
Messages
1,072
Reaction score
3,368
Points
175
Location
Western Washington, USA
Where we've moved, we were told to spray a particular brand of broad leaf killer on our pasture to discourage moles. Sure enough, the former owner musta sprayed cus there are no moles out there. Prob no earthworms either, which is the primary diet of my moles here. Lots of moles up around the house and in the beds.
Yikes. Depending on which broad leaf weed killer it was, if it was designed to be eaten by horses/cows and then they poop it out to reapply it, that stuff persists for years. Using the grass in your garden as a mulch or soil amendment can make it unusable for up to FIVE years. That is why I won't be applying bunny gold (I'm babysitting some bunnies) to my garden because I cannot be certain that weed killer was not used on their packaged orchard grass and timothy hay. 🙁
 

bobm

Garden Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
3,736
Reaction score
2,506
Points
307
Location
SW Washington
@bobm, before we get too far along, let me answer your question with a question.
Are you a fertilizer gardner or an organic gardner; or someone interested in going organic?
I had to stop growing vegetable crops here at our current home due to the fact that this 22 year old entire subdivision ( over 100 homes) was built on a swamp land. (I gardened organically at our Cal. 20 acre horse ranch). The developer brought in truckloads of soil as fill in order to build homes. It seems that each truckload contained different types of soil. After 2 years of utter crop failure, I decided that it wasn't worth the time and labor to continue. I brought in 32 tons of boulders (each 200- 700 lbs) from Mt. St. Helens eruption , as well as many tons of river rock to line a new meandering stream ( from the far end of the back yard flowing to the front yard driveway /sidewalk)that I dug and used the dirt to create raised beds formed by the boulders. We live at the end of a cul de sac which continues to a 2 block street , then ends at another cul de sac. During late autumn/ early winter winds blow the fallen leaves right onto our lot. So we have tons of leaves . The foot high leaves have now broken down to an inch or two... so organic ? soil... I can't attest to this as I do not know what all of these neighbors spray or use on their lots. I also got lawn clippings from 4 neighbors , however these neighbors have sold their homes and the new neighbors only put their lawn clippings into the recycle bins ( garbage cans for pickup). So, I grow 19 Japanese maples, many mugo pines + dwarf mugo pines( pruned into bonzai shapes), many coral bells, and 9 types of ferns in shade provided by the maple trees. I grow many types or native plants and other flowers,but these have drowned this past Jan. heavy rains ( even on top or the raised beds). We had lots of robbins to eat worms, but 2 years ago they stoped showing up as they were replaced by many moles ( very destructive to ferns and coral bells' root systems ) here and neighbors lots. I hope that this answers your question. I am looking for information as to what direction to continue landscape garden in. :caf
 

Alasgun

Deeply Rooted
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
1,058
Reaction score
4,405
Points
195
Location
S. Central Alaska
Thanks for the reply @bobm, i have to ask that question because if your a dyed in the wool “chemical guy” i wouldn't want to continue this for fear of insulting your “smart friends”. I haven't any smart garden friends but i do have a keen sense of observation and i read a lot; a lot. However i’m not an academia type which causes me to rely more on those observations.

We are completely organic and i like to tell people “around here; you can even eat the dirt”. Now, this dissertation can go on and on but in the interest of not loosing you let me just use this first installment as a lead in to organic gardening and if you want more well go from there.

A person who uses any chemical nutrients is only feeding the plant, when that feed stops the plant stops prospering. Chemical fertilizers are designed to work that way, fast, clean, convenient etc. However if you could ask the plant‘s they’d have a different opinion.

Here’s a great analogy i read years ago that makes organic easy to understand And it makes sense! When a person is in the hospital and hooked up to an I.V for whatever reason; they receive everything they need to support life, medications, vitamins and sometimes even food. This system keeps the patient alive for a while but no one ever really prospers on I.v, and along the way many of they’re normal bodily functions either slow down on stop functioning entirely. We aren’t designed to thrive on “fast, clean and convenient inputs. Our bodies are amazingly complex and our internals all play a part in converting what we ingest into nourishment for the body.
Plants are the same way, giving them fast, clean and convenient is only going to go so far and besides; then you gotta eat that stuff!!

Earlier i mentioned the worms as a decent indicator, i used worms because they’re what you can see But the micro herd is much bigger and includes all the microscopic critters. You’ve probably heard or read from an organic source “feed the soil, not the plant”? What i just shared with you explains this statement. From here on it will get both deep and wide and if you have the interest; id love to share what i can with you.

Thanks
 

bobm

Garden Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
3,736
Reaction score
2,506
Points
307
Location
SW Washington
Thanks for the reply @bobm, i have to ask that question because if your a dyed in the wool “chemical guy” i wouldn't want to continue this for fear of insulting your “smart friends”. I haven't any smart garden friends but i do have a keen sense of observation and i read a lot; a lot. However i’m not an academia type which causes me to rely more on those observations.

We are completely organic and i like to tell people “around here; you can even eat the dirt”. Now, this dissertation can go on and on but in the interest of not loosing you let me just use this first installment as a lead in to organic gardening and if you want more well go from there.

A person who uses any chemical nutrients is only feeding the plant, when that feed stops the plant stops prospering. Chemical fertilizers are designed to work that way, fast, clean, convenient etc. However if you could ask the plant‘s they’d have a different opinion.

Here’s a great analogy i read years ago that makes organic easy to understand And it makes sense! When a person is in the hospital and hooked up to an I.V for whatever reason; they receive everything they need to support life, medications, vitamins and sometimes even food. This system keeps the patient alive for a while but no one ever really prospers on I.v, and along the way many of they’re normal bodily functions either slow down on stop functioning entirely. We aren’t designed to thrive on “fast, clean and convenient inputs. Our bodies are amazingly complex and our internals all play a part in converting what we ingest into nourishment for the body.
Plants are the same way, giving them fast, clean and convenient is only going to go so far and besides; then you gotta eat that stuff!!

Earlier i mentioned the worms as a decent indicator, i used worms because they’re what you can see But the micro herd is much bigger and includes all the microscopic critters. You’ve probably heard or read from an organic source “feed the soil, not the plant”? What i just shared with you explains this statement. From here on it will get both deep and wide and if you have the interest; id love to share what i can with you.

Thanks
Go for it in spades , I have nothing to loose here but everything to gain ( keep in mind that I DO NOT want to increase the mole population as they burrow through fern roots and kill them) ....... :hu :hu
 

Alasgun

Deeply Rooted
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
1,058
Reaction score
4,405
Points
195
Location
S. Central Alaska
Defining “Organic” could consume too much of both of our time so i think it would be easier for me to just show you how we operate and you can set your own parameters. Bear in kind; in the Organic camp there are folks who go in for and hotly defend the use of Vegan inputs!
Then there’s the Organic liquid nute folks who IMO are just barely under the umbrella!
if your a reader there’s numerous articles out there going back 6-7 decades that will keep you up at night. Folks like Dr. Elane Ingham and Albreicht, Shumway and others who didn’t really pioneer anything but they did try to keep American agriculture on a more natural path.

Right off the bat i tell folks to learn how to make Aerated compost tea. It’s simple, affordable and will give you the most bang for your buck in the garden, on your yard and flowers. We will get into this a little later but what i want to do is introduce you to the tools and then we’ll talk about how to use them. Proper compost tea will go along way toward building your soil and provide some remediation on ground that’s had chemical’s used previously.

About here you need to decide how deep you want to jump in here. If you’re committed the first thing that has to go are chemical lawn and garden products; they kill the microbes which are the most essential building blocks we have.


- i Love @Phaedra Geiermann ’s approach to the lawn!
‘Another experiment I have been doing recently is changing the lawn.
I have no love for the stereotypical and monotoned lawn. The dry summer caused pretty serious damage to the lawn (especially the grass), so I sowed many different seeds about two weeks ago (as I know from the forecast that we would have about 10-days rain), including grass, clover, alfalfa, oilseed radish.”


Our lawn is 70-80 percent white clover, with a healthy mix of Dandelion, Plantain and some grass. The lawn edge is red clover, comfrey, self heal numerous mints etc. The bees forage all of this during the flowering times and when it’s mowed and added to the compost it’s a lot healthier Input than regular grass clippings.

next; decide whats the most important to you and start there. You cannot possibly make a full organic commitment and carry it thru in the first year.

chew on this a bit and we’ll move on based on your responces.
 
Last edited:

flowerbug

Garden Master
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Messages
15,962
Reaction score
23,969
Points
417
Location
mid-Michigan, USoA
it's hard to trap moles when there is hardscape things in the way. yes, i know this problem intimately for many years. if i can't get the mole crossing a small garden around an edge it's a resident problem perhaps for a long time. we have at least one running around now and it's been there for some time. trap will work but it can't work through rock mulch or layers of other things in the way.
 

bobm

Garden Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
3,736
Reaction score
2,506
Points
307
Location
SW Washington
Defining “Organic” could consume too much of both of our time so i think it would be easier for me to just show you how we operate and you can set your own parameters. Bear in kind; in the Organic camp there are folks who go in for and hotly defend the use of Vegan inputs!
Then there’s the Organic liquid nute folks who IMO are just barely under the umbrella!
if your a reader there’s numerous articles out there going back 6-7 decades that will keep you up at night. Folks like Dr. Elane Ingham and Albreicht, Shumway and others who didn’t really pioneer anything but they did try to keep American agriculture on a more natural path.

Right off the bat i tell folks to learn how to make Aerated compost tea. It’s simple, affordable and will give you the most bang for your buck in the garden, on your yard and flowers. We will get into this a little later but what i want to do is introduce you to the tools and then we’ll talk about how to use them. Proper compost tea will go along way toward building your soil and provide some remediation on ground that’s had chemical’s used previously.

About here you need to decide how deep you want to jump in here. If you’re committed the first thing that has to go are chemical lawn and garden products; they kill the microbes which are the most essential building blocks we have.


- i Love @Phaedra Geiermann ’s approach to the lawn!
‘Another experiment I have been doing recently is changing the lawn.
I have no love for the stereotypical and monotoned lawn. The dry summer caused pretty serious damage to the lawn (especially the grass), so I sowed many different seeds about two weeks ago (as I know from the forecast that we would have about 10-days rain), including grass, clover, alfalfa, oilseed radish.”


Our lawn is 70-80 percent white clover, with a healthy mix of Dandelion, Plantain and some grass. The lawn edge is red clover, comfrey, self heal numerous mints etc. The bees forage all of this during the flowering times and when it’s mowed and added to the compost it’s a lot healthier Input than regular grass clippings.

next; decide whats the most important to you and start there. You cannot possibly make a full organic commitment and carry it thru in the first year.

chew on this a bit and we’ll move on based on your responces.
On our Cal. ranch, our front yard was over an acre. When we had a drought and killed the grass, I let it stay dead. I gave away the lawn motor. I then used a tractor to disc the former lawn all winter and spring to kill off any sprouted seeds, then I planted alfalfa instead to supplement feed the horses in the barn ( 9 horses). Mares and foals (11mares +foals )had 15 acres of pasture (timothy, bermuda, oats, barley, 3 types of clover). I used horse manure ( 3 heaping wheel barrow fulls /day from the horses in the barn and corrals) to fertilize it as well as my garden area which were VERY productive. Now , due to my health issues, my doctors ordered a mostly protein diet ( meat, fish, ) with very few carbs. Minimal pastries, candy etc. as treats only. I have NO lawn here, just the trees, ferns,azalias, corral bells, and ornamental stepable thyme ground covers. Most of the flowering plants as well as the so called "native plants " have drowned due to heavy rains last Dec. and Jan. . :old
 
Last edited:

Alasgun

Deeply Rooted
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
1,058
Reaction score
4,405
Points
195
Location
S. Central Alaska
So at this point i have to ask; do you garden at all? Just curious; if so i’ll keep going with the organic tutorial but im not seeing it at this point.

going back to the heading “worms”; i un earthed this lawn python this afternoon digging in some D-1 for fill dirt around some post I set today!
 

Attachments

  • 40F18D31-2CF3-4AB3-9D77-DA81A578D70E.jpeg
    40F18D31-2CF3-4AB3-9D77-DA81A578D70E.jpeg
    191.6 KB · Views: 74

bobm

Garden Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
3,736
Reaction score
2,506
Points
307
Location
SW Washington
So at this point i have to ask; do you garden at all? Just curious; if so i’ll keep going with the organic tutorial but im not seeing it at this point.

going back to the heading “worms”; i un earthed this lawn python this afternoon digging in some D-1 for fill dirt around some post I set today!
Alasgun... I built 7 raised beds of varying sizes using 200- 800 lb. boulders as retaining walls. No cement was used to hold them in place. I filled them with dirt that I dug to form a meandering creek bed, then amended them with peat moss, fine mulch from forest floor, horse manure , lawn clippings, tree leaves, and wood chips. I planted veg crops and strawberries. They started to grow extreamly well ,worms galore. Local Robbins raised 3 sets of nestlings. Then we had heavy rains for 2 days straight that drowned my garden plants. The State owned drainage canal right behind our back fence became a raging torrent. Enter the moles to escape drowning and started to dig tunnels and feast on the worms , then reproduce. We had tons of slugs and snails. Enter garter snakes that ate them and reproduce too. After 6 years, there are virtually no worms and slug and nails. The next year, more heavy rains, drowned my new planted veg. crops. The mole hills increased in these beds that made the soil look like a newly plowed field. So, I consulted with a state master gardener who recomended to plant native plants... I did... but 2 years later, a wind storm + heavy rain destroyed the native trees and the water drowned native shrubs and flowers. So, I planted J. Maple trees and in 3 years they produced lots of shade ... I then planted several types of ferns and other plants from all over the world. Result of this is that my landscape garden was on Clark County Garden Tour for 5 years in a row. :celebrate Then, right after Christmas last year, I became quite ill with covid... today, I get around using a walker and crutches. I work in the garden sitting on a steel folding chair so that I can reach small weeds that dare to sprout. I haven't seen a " lawn python " for several months, but the moles are still here and tunneling trough the ferns and azalias,making them wilt, then die. So, the short answer to your question is now - no. :idunno I still would like to continue to post our good and bad gardening experiences so that everyone can benefit from them. :caf:caf
 

Latest posts

Top