This was posted by a friend~

[thistlebloom]

There is all sorts of history about slavery.

It is one very sad subject.

We still haven't moved beyond it. In every direction, it cruelly existed and exists.

Steve

It is tragically sad, and completely despicable. And you're right about it's continued existence. All over the globe.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Just because atrocities like slavery, rape, and genocide have existed in the past doesn't make it right today, or at least not for me. Slavery has been practiced for thousands of years. How do you think the Romans could afford all those tremendous roads, buildings, and monuments. When the treasury ran low they'd go out and conquer somebody. They'd pillage anything worth cash and sell the people off into slavery to replenish the treasury. The Roman Empire collapsed when they stopped expanding and the treasury ran low. So yes, slavery has been around forever and has been practiced white on white, black on black, people that shared a common religion or common tongues. In what way does that make slavery right for today?

Slavery does exist today in different forms, even in our country. How else can you describe sex trafficking? About 20 years ago I worked with a man that said he witnessed slaves sold at auction. He was pretty emotional about it, I tend to believe him. Children are taken from their families and forced to become soldiers at middle school age. Does anyone think this is right because it happened in the past?

I don't go back in history and condemn people for practicing what was an acceptable part of their society at the time even if it seems barbaric to us today. I don't condemn Joshua for committing genocide at Jericho or other places, it's a very effective strategy when you are trying to get other cities to surrender instead of fighting. Genghis Khan used it effectively. Ethnic cleansing is still going on today. I equate some groups in our country to ethnic cleansing. Some just want to change us to a lily white country by running people out but I believe some of the hate groups would be quite happy to resort to outright murder if they could get away with it, even if that means blowing up a church with four little girls in it. Or maybe that is just to intimidate certain people to returning to being a sub-human race to be lorded over by the master race. I don't know what goes on in these people's minds.

I don't condemn Abraham or Sarah for owning slaves. That was the way of life back then. I don't condemn Columbus for the way the Spanish treated the people they found in the New World. The French and British took a different tact, but plenty of others followed the same model, the Portuguese and Dutch for example. I don't condemn Andrew Jackson for his treatment of the five civilized tribes, moving them out west. Some people of the time vigorously opposed him but he couldn't have done it without a lot of popular support. You can go back in history and find all kinds of things that today are considered atrocities but were accepted practice at the time by their societal norms. I have no idea what people 200 years down the road will think of many of our current accepted practices. I can't set myself up to behave according to their morals, I have no idea what they will be, I can only act on mine today.

 

[thistlebloom]

In what way does that make slavery right for today?

Did I miss something? Who said it was okay, ever?

 

[valley ranch]

Well Ridge~ Me thinks you have a wee perception difficulty``` Best of luck with your plans and dreams```

 

[digitS']

So, mired in history is a better forward course? Measured in with drama ...

We are all part of a personal history. I have interacted a good deal with refugees. I could point out to @Ridgerunner that I haven't forgiven Jackson, but the refugees from that time aren't the refugees I'm talking about. They do, however, inform my thinking.

Richard, you have immediate family who were refugees. I was a little inspired by what Pope Francis said recently about inequality and justice. He advised compassion.

And Ridge', Columbus was Italian .

Steve

 

[Ridgerunner]

And Ridge', Columbus was Italian .

Steve

True Steve, but he sailed for the Spanish, ruled in Spain's name, and most later Spaniards ruled in much the same manner. The Italians did not have colonies after Roman days until Ethiopia, but I think it is safe to say the tactics hadn't changed a lot.

 

[Nyboy]

One of my favorite movies Based on real life you can watch on youtube for $2.99

 

[Ridgerunner]

Did I miss something? Who said it was okay, ever?

"Native Americans also enslaved each other, and Africans also. It is not an American invention, nor a Christian one"

Thistle, I don't see your post as trying to justify slavery, especially when read in context with your second sentence and other things that had been posted before it. Bob's post isn't quite as clear but I don't think he was trying to justify slavery either. My comment was not specifically pointed at any post in this thread, I just keep hearing about how others have always done it as if somehow that makes it right. It's more of a general rant, get over it and lets figure out a way forward instead of just dredging up the past as if the past justifies atrocities today. I try to read things from different people's points of view. Some of those things are totally disgusting or downright ridiculous, but it's sort of like getting to know the enemy. That challenges me to justify my thinking instead of going to own news source that just reinforces my opinions and telling me how to think.

Steve, I'll point out the Bible talks about forgiveness but I have not seen where it says to forget. If you are going to look to the past try to understand the world they lived in and why they may have done what they did. I think it is very important to look to the past at what was done and what the consequences were to help us out today. Maybe by looking at what actually happened and why, we could see that treating the Cherokee, Choctaw, and others according to what was a populist policy may not have been the best policy in the long term. There were demagogues pushing that policy on the frontier and they found a willing audience. There are plenty of demagogues pushing things today and they are finding a willing audience. There is a saying that those who fail to study the past are bound to repeat it. I think a bigger danger are the people that take a snippet out of context from the past and sell that as a complete history.

One thing I got out of this thread is some of why Valley has some of the attitudes he does. I've worked with Muslims, mostly from Jordan, Palestine, and Lebanon but some other places also. I've worked in various places around the world with people that were not Muslim. Wherever I went there were good people and there were people I would not turn my back on. Not all Muslims are slavers, not all slavers are Muslim. But we form our attitudes on our experiences. That's the way it should be.

 

[thistlebloom]

Thistle, I don't see your post as trying to justify slavery, especially when read in context with your second sentence and other things that had been posted before it

I absolutely was not justifying slavery, historically or presently.
I was responding to the idea that seems to be generally circulated that slavery is a white American invention. It's nothing to be proud of in our history that's for certain, just as so many other injustices and atrocities currently and historically are committed globally.

 

[valley ranch]

Ridge ~ so~ where are you going with this~ do you want us to give all we have and follow you to some place high on a hill```

Is anyone you are addressing living wrongly~ should we began thinking more like you on certain subjects```

If you will use fewer words with more meat and meaning that would help```