Covid

Zeedman

Garden Master
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
3,894
Reaction score
11,948
Points
307
Location
East-central Wisconsin
There are two conflicting points of view on how to deal with Covid, and I can sympathize with both.

Those who want to make their own decisions regarding whether to wear a mask or not, without government (or anyone else) forcing them one way or the other. As a people, we take our freedom seriously, so I get that. Some have just made a conscious decision not to live in fear, or wait for an effective vaccine that may or may not become available some time in the distant future. Plus, it's summer, and wearing a mask for an extended period is uncomfortable... and when there is a high heat index, probably unhealthy.

And those who believe (rightly) that masks are only effective if worn by everyone while in the close proximity of others. They want to feel safe, and see those who fail to wear masks as being inconsiderate. Having felt that way when people cough around me without covering (even before Covid) I get that too. If everyone wore a mask around others, it would enable a return to at least some semblance of normalcy. But if masks are not worn by everyone, the only safe choice for those at high risk is to stay home... and they want to break out of isolation as well.

For the most part, both philosophies have things in common... a desire to break out of isolation, to reclaim their lives, and the belief that things will only return to normal (if they ever do) when the population reaches herd immunity. The media & government tell us that will only happen when a vaccine immunizes the population. Even assuming such a vaccine is 100% effective - and that's a big "if", considering the track record of the flu vaccine - the only solution being offered until then is to prevent it from spreading. It's just natural that an independent people begin to resist the long-term loss of freedom imposed by that approach.

However, there is another pathway to herd immunity which IMO has been largely glossed over in our national debate - which is an effective treatment to mitigate the symptoms, and lessen the chance of death. At present, only Remdesivir is approved as a treatment against Covid 19. It costs thousands of dollars for a treatment, if you can find it... it seems some are profiting mightily from this pandemic. :mad: Effective or not, it certainly doesn't appear to be saving many lives. It might be enlightening to "follow the money" for possible conflicts of interest.

In other countries, the use of Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin, and zinc proved to be effective. Numerous doctors both here & abroad have testified that the regimen worked, vastly reducing both hospitalization & mortality if administered at an early stage. Both drugs are cheap, have been proven safe for years, and generic versions of Hydroxychloroquine could be rapidly produced in quantity. For some odd reason, though, in spite of previously being declared safe & being widely prescribed for decades for other purposes, the FDA suddenly declared Hydroxychloroquine to be unsafe. A U.S. trial declaring Hydroxychloroquine to be ineffective against Covid 19 was only done on patients who were already hospitalized - long after the point where the treatment would have been effective. There is published evidence that the NIH knew long ago that Chloroquine (closely related to Hydroxychloroquine) was highly effective against corona viruses. It smells like politics of the worst kind, if a proven treatment that saves lives is being withheld from the public on false pretenses.

It is not the Corona virus that is keeping us in lockdown, or pitting neighbor against neighbor... it is the fear of dying from it, or passing it on to someone we know at greater risk. If a treatment can be proven to greatly reduce the chance of death, it would no longer be necessary for all but the most vulnerable to self isolate. The disease would spread; but without massive mortality - and even without a vaccine - herd immunity would soon follow. Fear would diminish, and we could all begin the task of returning to normalcy. I still hold out hope that will happen, but given election year insanity, I'm not holding my breath.
 

AMKuska

Garden Master
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
2,227
Reaction score
5,414
Points
317
Location
Washington
I have followed Covid-19 very closely since it first appeared in China. It has unfortunately touched my life several times. My grandmother's caretaker has gotten sick. My grandpa has died. A teacher for my friend has died. An acquaintance is currently in quarantine, but doesn't need hospitalization yet.

Sure, the death rate is low, but if the person who dies from it is someone you know it becomes a lot less acceptable. I'll wear that mask, thank you.
 

thistlebloom

Garden Master
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
16,473
Reaction score
17,395
Points
457
Location
North Idaho 48th parallel
what does it change for you if someone else wears a mask? they're no threat to you of violence. there's no shooting flames or bullets coming from those masks...

I don't understand this comment. Where did I show any hostility about people who exercise their right to wear masks? I guess I touched a tender spot.
i'm not upset or dismayed or afraid. i find repeated statements that i am afraid when i'm not to be pretty annoying.
The comment I made was not directed at you personally FB. It was a general statement.

Nailed it Seed. Apparently very few are paying attention to these stats.
 
Last edited:

Carol Dee

Garden Master
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
12,994
Reaction score
20,490
Points
437
Location
Long Grove, IA
politically motivated or science based. And are
There are two conflicting points of view on how to deal with Covid, and I can sympathize with both.

Those who want to make their own decisions regarding whether to wear a mask or not, without government (or anyone else) forcing them one way or the other. As a people, we take our freedom seriously, so I get that. Some have just made a conscious decision not to live in fear, or wait for an effective vaccine that may or may not become available some time in the distant future. Plus, it's summer, and wearing a mask for an extended period is uncomfortable... and when there is a high heat index, probably unhealthy.

And those who believe (rightly) that masks are only effective if worn by everyone while in the close proximity of others. They want to feel safe, and see those who fail to wear masks as being inconsiderate. Having felt that way when people cough around me without covering (even before Covid) I get that too. If everyone wore a mask around others, it would enable a return to at least some semblance of normalcy. But if masks are not worn by everyone, the only safe choice for those at high risk is to stay home... and they want to break out of isolation as well.

For the most part, both philosophies have things in common... a desire to break out of isolation, to reclaim their lives, and the belief that things will only return to normal (if they ever do) when the population reaches herd immunity. The media & government tell us that will only happen when a vaccine immunizes the population. Even assuming such a vaccine is 100% effective - and that's a big "if", considering the track record of the flu vaccine - the only solution being offered until then is to prevent it from spreading. It's just natural that an independent people begin to resist the long-term loss of freedom imposed by that approach.

However, there is another pathway to herd immunity which IMO has been largely glossed over in our national debate - which is an effective treatment to mitigate the symptoms, and lessen the chance of death. At present, only Remdesivir is approved as a treatment against Covid 19. It costs thousands of dollars for a treatment, if you can find it... it seems some are profiting mightily from this pandemic. :mad: Effective or not, it certainly doesn't appear to be saving many lives. It might be enlightening to "follow the money" for possible conflicts of interest.

In other countries, the use of Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin, and zinc proved to be effective. Numerous doctors both here & abroad have testified that the regimen worked, vastly reducing both hospitalization & mortality if administered at an early stage. Both drugs are cheap, have been proven safe for years, and generic versions of Hydroxychloroquine could be rapidly produced in quantity. For some odd reason, though, in spite of previously being declared safe & being widely prescribed for decades for other purposes, the FDA suddenly declared Hydroxychloroquine to be unsafe. A U.S. trial declaring Hydroxychloroquine to be ineffective against Covid 19 was only done on patients who were already hospitalized - long after the point where the treatment would have been effective. There is published evidence that the NIH knew long ago that Chloroquine (closely related to Hydroxychloroquine) was highly effective against corona viruses. It smells like politics of the worst kind, if a proven treatment that saves lives is being withheld from the public on false pretenses.

It is not the Corona virus that is keeping us in lockdown, or pitting neighbor against neighbor... it is the fear of dying from it, or passing it on to someone we know at greater risk. If a treatment can be proven to greatly reduce the chance of death, it would no longer be necessary for all but the most vulnerable to self isolate. The disease would spread; but without massive mortality - and even without a vaccine - herd immunity would soon follow. Fear would diminish, and we could all begin the task of returning to normalcy. I still hold out hope that will happen, but given election year insanity, I'm not holding my breath.
:clap Well said, thank You Zeedman.
My only worry that remains is the dang virus keeps mutating. And Doctors are no longer sure that we actually become immune after having it once, sadly there are cases of people getting it again!
 

Carol Dee

Garden Master
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
12,994
Reaction score
20,490
Points
437
Location
Long Grove, IA
I have followed Covid-19 very closely since it first appeared in China. It has unfortunately touched my life several times. My grandmother's caretaker has gotten sick. My grandpa has died. A teacher for my friend has died. An acquaintance is currently in quarantine, but doesn't need hospitalization yet.

Sure, the death rate is low, but if the person who dies from it is someone you know it becomes a lot less acceptable. I'll wear that mask, thank you.
Me to @AMKuska :hugs
 

seedcorn

Garden Master
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
9,627
Reaction score
9,882
Points
397
Location
NE IN
Color me stupid.... please explain

Covid .04% death rate. That mainly kills people with other mitigating factors.
Flu. 1% death rate. Kills all ages. Affects healthy as well as immune depressed.
Both mutate. (Different strains)
Neither has an effective vaccine.

One we shut down USA, one we don’t. Why?
 

digitS'

Garden Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
25,842
Reaction score
29,180
Points
457
Location
border, ID/WA(!)
Seed', the CDC has finalized some numbers for the 2016-7 flu season, the most recent. They estimate that 29 million Americans had the flu, 38,000 died, mostly elderly. Link

That's about .01%., so - that is 1/4th as lethal as Covid-19. With the stated 133,000 deaths from the novel virus and with case numbers and hospitalizations rising as we speak, your poster won't age well.

Also, I believe that it was that year when we were told that the flu vaccine was only 60% effective. Still, 60% is better than nothing.

Elsewhere, since closing ALL borders on March 13th, Spain re-opened the one with Portugal about 2 weeks ago. The Portuguese government had asked that it remain closed until then.

Oktoberfest has been cancelled in Munich, Germany.

I don't know about the politics, elections, etc. for these countries and I'm not a world traveler but what to do there can't matter much to Americans. Admittance for US citizens is not permitted. Oh, and dining in, in Moscow, that's still out.

We are told that we are going to the stars. I suppose so, at some time and in one way or another. Meanwhile, we won't be going to Europe.

Steve
 
Last edited:

seedcorn

Garden Master
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
9,627
Reaction score
9,882
Points
397
Location
NE IN
@digitS' appreciate the link. Will save thoughts when I’m not so tired.
 

flowerbug

Garden Master
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Messages
16,003
Reaction score
24,048
Points
417
Location
mid-Michigan, USoA
As for me, not mad. Just respectfully disagree. Blame me all anyone wants but I’m negative passing no Covid on. I’m at risk but I place no one else at risk.
Side note, all scientists believe it will go on & on& on because it mutates. Just like the flu goes on & on & on. Different strain, same result.

once again, you keep posting misleading information.

if you are negative you are not passing Covid on. that i agree with.

scientists believe it will go on and on because of human behavior. the mutations observed so far show no signs of material change with regard to some strategies used in vaccines. it is not "just like the flu" and it is not a "different strain" and the results are not the same.

these kinds of statements by you keep telling me that you really don't understand this topic or virus.
 

flowerbug

Garden Master
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Messages
16,003
Reaction score
24,048
Points
417
Location
mid-Michigan, USoA
Well Crap, this is getting too close for comfort. DH went to a funeral visitation, I stayed away! He and everyone wore masks, after shaking hands he used the sanitizer he carries before driving home. Only to find out today the autopsy came back that he had Covid and his wife has tested positive. He did not see her, so she may have stayed home. His kids had not seen him for weeks , yet will get tested ASAP. So now we wait and hope they all are negative. Grrr .... I was going to leave on vacation with Sis in a few days. Thinking to post pone or cancel just to be safe. :(

we have recently lost a friend and while it is very likely they were not Covid positive i really do not wish to attend any large gathering. right now that is just not a good idea. Mom will likely want to go. i'll drive her and sit in the car or scope out the situation carefully to make sure it is as low risk as possible. maybe they will have the service outdoors. so far no details or arrangements have been posted.

hope DH and you will be ok.
 

Latest posts

Top