Monsanto - the planet killer is at it again.

Ladyhawke1 said:

I am scratching my head here. Paraphrasing ..Dont talk to biased individuals but it is ok to talk to farmers. Farmers are what..individuals, or biased.

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It's simple, want to know about an industry, talk to those actually IN the industry. Get to know their challenges from their side. Ask them what would happen if they farmed the way some of you "think" you want ag to be. Talk to farmers that actually make their full time living w/the soil.

Or go read articles from people so far removed from Ag that they don't recognize a corn plant from a soybean plant.

vfem said:

I wish they would just label everything made with GMO corn or Pesticide treated foods with those warnings so people are free to make their own decisions on whether they want to buy it or not.

They leave the end customer completely out of the process on decision making on our own health. [/i]

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I'm good w/that or label everything made w/non GMO and non-chemical fields. Organic doesn't do it as chemicals are used there as well. On labeling non-GMO, it would be stated that it is based on a certain specific test and no guarantees that if another test was run that you might get a positive reading.

Organic doesn't do it as chemicals are used there as well.

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Problem is Certified Organic is not allowed Chemicals in the use of growing crops. However there are adjacent fields that practice conventional ag which mean contaimenation is always possible.

This is a wonderful publication that really shows how close organic is to organic, just not quite there yet.

http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/organiccrop.html

In essence, certification is largely about integrity assuring that the buyer is getting what he or she is paying for. Certified organic production, then, means production by approved organic methods, with additional pains taken to eliminate contamination with prohibited materials and commingling with conventional products.

There is a common misconception that certified organic means "pesticide residue-free." Consumers have a right to expect little or no pesticide residue on certified organic crops because none are used in their production. However, ours is a dirty world in which pesticides and their break-down products are ubiquitous. This is only to be expected in a national farm system where more than 99% of all applied farm chemicals miss the target organism.(15)

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I am still reading over on this page, but generally I don't think anyone is hiding the fact that USDA adopted standards aren't the best yet.

Either way, most products need to have warnings. Especially is they get to slap how GOOD FOR YOU it is in huge letters across the front. The have room for small warnings and disclaimers on the back.

Especially with how Froot Loops now says "HIGH in Fiber" on the front! Come on!

Problem is Certified Organic is not allowed Chemicals

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They do allow pesticides on the seeds. Certain chemicals that are "labeled" organic are allowed. It is not "blown in" as they like to suggest. The term organic is now just a "sales term" w/no great meaning. Now "chemical free" that would hold a punch as long as NO definitions were allowed except for what we all know "chemical free" means no chemicals added or used.

seedcorn said:

It's simple, want to know about an industry, talk to those actually IN the industry. Get to know their challenges from their side. Ask them what would happen if they farmed the way some of you "think" you want ag to be. Talk to farmers that actually make their full time living w/the soil.

Or go read articles from people so far removed from Ag that they don't recognize a corn plant from a soybean plant.

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So you believe that all farmers everywhere all have the same issues, concerns, and opinions?

Really?

Huh.

And you believe that if lay people were simply to talk to folks who work in the industry about which they have concerns, they would even 1) understand enough about the industry regulations, trends and jargon to be able to ask reasonable questions that would results in intelligible answers 2) have some notion of how various industries can be misguided or downright evil in their own peculiar ways 3) know how to find out whether the person they are talking to is the appropriate person to answer such a question (e.g. you wouldn't want to ask a Quality Assurance person about basic biology, just like you wouldn't ask a toxicologist about engineering) 4) be able to determine whether other experts in the field have differing opinions 5) completely understand the answers and all their implications?

I mean, gosh, that's a heck of a thing to say. Go on, ask me anything you want to know about Big Pharma! I will be happy to answer!

because none are used in their production

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There are naturally derived pestcides used which are considered ok, they break rather fast compared to chemical fertilizers and pesticides used in conventinal gardening. Most naturally derived types have broken down and leave little or no trace by harvest time. Meaning safe consumption. Not perfect, again, but better.

http://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopExt/4dmg/VegFruit/organic.htm

Rosalind said:

seedcorn said:

It's simple, want to know about an industry, talk to those actually IN the industry. Get to know their challenges from their side. Ask them what would happen if they farmed the way some of you "think" you want ag to be. Talk to farmers that actually make their full time living w/the soil.

Or go read articles from people so far removed from Ag that they don't recognize a corn plant from a soybean plant.

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So you believe that all farmers everywhere all have the same issues, concerns, and opinions?

Really?

Huh.

And you believe that if lay people were simply to talk to folks who work in the industry about which they have concerns, they would even 1) understand enough about the industry regulations, trends and jargon to be able to ask reasonable questions that would results in intelligible answers 2) have some notion of how various industries can be misguided or downright evil in their own peculiar ways 3) know how to find out whether the person they are talking to is the appropriate person to answer such a question (e.g. you wouldn't want to ask a Quality Assurance person about basic biology, just like you wouldn't ask a toxicologist about engineering) 4) be able to determine whether other experts in the field have differing opinions 5) completely understand the answers and all their implications?

I mean, gosh, that's a heck of a thing to say. Go on, ask me anything you want to know about Big Pharma! I will be happy to answer!

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Good try at twisting a simple concept. Concept is simple, talk to people in industry you want to know more about. Makes infinite more sense than talking to my mechanic about pharm industry or you about the car industry.

Yes, there are many different aspects of Ag, just like most industries. If you can't ask a reasonable question, then you have no business commenting on it at all.

seedcorn said:

Yes, there are many different aspects of Ag, just like most industries. If you can't ask a reasonable question, then you have no business commenting on it at all.

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You don't get to choose who answers a post and their thoughts or questions as you should very well know from how these views and comments have been going all along. If you don't like the questions or answers, you do not have to respond, or you may... but you do not get to dictate what others choose to write unless its inappropriate.

Seedcorn,

Surely we all draw our information from many sources -- I know I do as I try hard to keep a sense of balance! By taking it from one side only, especially the ones making the big money out of it, the view gets very skewed. We need a broad spectrum of opinions in this case because the use of these seeds and chemicals is in question all over the world. These come from various organisations & people; alot of whom are highly qualified in their very different fields (& that includes farmers).

It is particularly interesting to me as there is a lot of interest over here in Europe over these questions. So far we have not allowed GM crops to be grown in the UK (as in a lot of other European countries). Also many of our supermarkets removed GM ingredients from their own branded goods because their customers demanded it; a lot of other manufacturers followed suite. However there is an ongoing debate as to whether to allow the use of these products and as all of us are the consumers of them we need to listen to all sides of the argument.

Of course things get a little impassioned at times......
BUT

If you can't ask a reasonable question, then you have no business commenting on it at all.

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I don't think it is appropriate to be rude to a fellow member of this forum. So far we had managed to conduct the discussion without descending to that. What I enjoy about TEG is the possibility of reading many peoples' points of view so that they might inform mine. I don't want that this discussion gets closed down as I am learning a lot from it. It is certainly keeping my old brain-cells working hard.....!

Hattie

In doing a general search, there are tons of sites loaded with info about Monsanto & it's escapades from it's beginning. Wikipedia had some very revealing info & none are really very positive. With a track record like agent orange, aspartime, BST (bovine growth hormone), caffiene, vanillin, nuclear weapons-to name just a few it's no wonder there is little good associated with the Monsanto name.
Several countries worldwide either have lawsuits against them or don't want their products (namely GMO's). Which is to say, Monsanto doesn't have a large market following in which to sell their wares. So it comes down to them 'dumping' their junk on poor countries like Haiti (and a starving African country that I can't remember the name at this time) and some seeing this as compassionate charity. Their so called gift isn't to help anyone, but to get rid of toxic seed in the hope of roping in another sucker that can only get future seed thru them. That is not a good thing.
I applaud Haiti & others for their taking a stand against Monsanto's offers & just wish the US would do the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto

About the only one's making any positive comments about Monsanto is Monsanto itself & maybe a few others that choose to see them thru rose colored glasses.

Hattie---I see Monsanto has been in trouble in the UK for illegal dumping-knowingly & willingly contaminating the area & trying to cover it up or keep it hush hush.


oh and another thought (from Bible) bad seed can only produce bad fruit, good seed can only produce good fruit.