A Seed Saver's Garden

[Zeedman]

My 4 o'clock plants that I grew from saved tubers. And the seeds they produce! It does seem like the white flowering variety is the most resilient of all colours. And I've almost left it to nature for moisture, except in the first few weeks. Only problem I've experienced with this plant is stems breaking right off from the main plant. That's happened a few times, including this year. So many reasons to enjoy this species though, as it seems to not really require any human intervention or even specific sun exposure.
And the scent

Back in the 80's, my family & I lived in San Jose, California in a rented home. DW & I were digging up sod next to the fence to put in a garden - and dug up some large tubers. I couldn't identify them, but they were large enough to make me curious. So we left the tubers where they were, and re-located the garden to another location. When the weather warmed, the tubers sprouted... they were 4 o' clocks! There was a long row naturalized along the fence. Beautiful flowers, I don't know why I haven't grown them since (other than the fact the tubers need to be stored indoors over winter here).

Posted this one before, but I can't help but marvel over those dark blue waves and silver sparkles. I can see why the gave it a Star Wars themed name.

Wow! That is an interesting tomato. Does it lose its stripes & turn deep red when ripe?

 

[flowerbug]

Going back to the bell versus hot pepper output question. I think a lot of plants (tomatoes and peppers in particular) have a sort of standard constant output per unit of plant. That is, the bigger the fruit you are getting, the less of them there will be. There is only so much fruit a unit of plant can make fruit for, it seems. To get more fruit, you have to get the plant bigger. I certainly holds true for me and tomatoes. If the tomato is a normal to large one, I am lucky to get one or two fruits off it in a season (and they will be smaller than they normally would be). In contrast a cherry tomato will make a decent number of fruits, and a current type, so many I may actually have extras.

Peppers seem to be the same thing. Bells produce one or two runty fruits. But the year I grew the Amazonians (which are tiny, and only mildly hot) I got a pretty decent number.)

it's very dependent upon soils and conditions. i've had some red pepper plants do very well, so well that i was able to pick many peppers all season off them and then others of the same plants and seeds that just didn't do that great.

while i agree with you that there is some limit based upon leaf and root area there seems to be a range in between minimums and maximums.

in bean plants i've certainly had some varieties which did great one season and then not much for a few seasons afterwards. i am not in the category of gardener where a plant has to be hugely productive - i actually don't want huge production v.s. what i would consider more moderate but also more steady. i don't want soils depleted and needing a lot of amending each season (i can't keep up with that sort of maintenance requirement). instead i want enough so that i get some return and some seeds for the future. that is good enough. instead i work on other aspects of the plant where it is early and hopefully able to tolerate our soils and heat and disease pressures and bugs and...

i also have a preference for medium seeded beans of certain shapes over others mainly because i think the bigger seeded varieties can have more trouble properly finishing or filling a bean or seed coat when the weather keeps changing on me. smaller beans seem to get things done better in time.

but all that said i do appreciate a nicely made bean no matter how it gets there. and peppers too. i should check the garden for red peppers. i think it is too early for them to be ripening, but they can surprise me sometimes... i have to get in there to weed some anyways so...

 

[flowerbug]

Here is a nearly done pea variety; if I have only a few seeds to start with I'll often grow in these planters for more cultural control. I've been keeping them near my (covered ) carport because there has been some extended periods of rain and I can pull them under there as often as needed and easily. The rains will damage any seed in pods which have opened even slightly. However, it also is right at the front of my house, so anyone who comes over sees these dying planters right off.
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I probably have a somewhat twisted sense of humour, as I get such a hoot out of watching people's reactions to these planters. I can practically feel them thinking, '....my goodness, she hasn't a clue how to grow anything, her plants are all dead and she hasn't noticed...'. The looks of horror on their faces; the less reserved will immediately look to me with hope to communicate my mistake with eye language. At this point I usually cannot hold back the laughter, nor the need to explain to them why I'm keeping 'dead plants'. I find it all pretty hilarious, and many a joke has been made by visitors about my ineptitude on full display.

But in another way, it's all an interesting cultural revelation. At some point in times past I don't think the presence of my degrading plants would have been cause for such confusion. People saved seeds, it was just part of the whole process in a gardening cycle. You have to wait 'til the plant is done. Likely nearly everyone who grew plants did it. Now, it seems a cause for confusion and bafflement. Not that I enjoy the look of the plants at this stage either, but it is what it is and I want the seeds. Interesting how the wheel of life rotates.

Mom has a big problem with anything like that, she wants it cleaned up and back to bare dirt or something green and growing. she'll deadhead flowers because she doesn't like the look of the seed pods or the dying back heads. she'll rake up dead stuff and haul it away like the daffodil leaves that are dying back - she'll cut them off before they're even done dying back (which means they won't flower as well the next season). etc. *sigh*

i keep trying to tell her that worms need to eat something and that mulch is useful and protects the soil and things like that. it just doesn't sink in very far, she wants what she wants and she wants things either bare dirt or green.

to me that is a mental thing. i just can't appreciate bare dirt as much as i like to see something there keeping some clothes on momma nature.

always good to see snakes. and also drying peas.

 

[flowerbug]

funny we were just talking about 4oclocks yesterday. Mom doesn't remember them, but i think if she sees the flower she'll remember. we never grew them from tubers just put them in from seeds - all those years ago (from the time i was about 5 to about 8 somewhere about 50-mumble-years-ago).

 

[flowerbug]

and back to thinking about seeds and beans. some plants i'm growing this season i'll be happy if i get a half dozen well shaped, filled and good seed coat beans. just because they've been difficult before and i want to figure out how to get better results from them. i have to answer the question of if they need better soil than where i've been planting them, an earlier planting date, more or less water, etc. just the challenge. it's good to have some of those... i grow them because of seed coat color or shape of the bean and also because i hope they'll cross with some of my more reliable and hearty other beans and i can get them to be more reliable and tolerant of my conditions kinds of beans. since i've had luck with this approach before i'll keep at it as long as i am able. it's very satisfying to me in a deep sort of way that i think you understand from what you write here.

 

[heirloomgal]

Back in the 80's, my family & I lived in San Jose, California in a rented home. DW & I were digging up sod next to the fence to put in a garden - and dug up some large tubers. I couldn't identify them, but they were large enough to make me curious. So we left the tubers where they were, and re-located the garden to another location. When the weather warmed, the tubers sprouted... they were 4 o' clocks! There was a long row naturalized along the fence. Beautiful flowers, I don't know why I haven't grown them since (other than the fact the tubers need to be stored indoors over winter here).


Wow! That is an interesting tomato. Does it lose its stripes & turn deep red when ripe?

It doesn't lose the blue stripes or sparkles! The main difference it will have when ripe is the light green will be red/dark pink. The tomato crafters of today are really outdoing themselves with the aesthetic values. Taste sometimes lags behind, but the blues are catching up. We'll see how this one tastes when the time comes! I've tried 4 tomato varieties so far this year, and they've all been wonderful - which is a rare event for me as I'm picky. I honestly think that Spoon tomato is pretty unbeatable for flavour, best currant yet.

 

[heirloomgal]

Did a walk through in the garden today, and comparing all the progress of different things. Has anyone grown the purple pole bean called 'Carminat'? Mackerel, this is a great variety. It's my first try with it, and the seller said it blows away other purple heirloom beans. That seemed a worthy challenge, and it actually seems to be true. The plant is loaded with pods already, and from top to bottom, literally. It's higher than 6 feet and winding back down a bit now. I don't usually eat the beans in their first grow out, but I think I will with this one. There is just so many pods. This has got to be a record for pre-August in my area AND with all the terrible weather we've had; Northeastern and Louisiana have pods too but not nearly this many. Most of my bush beans are not this far along. Too bad I only planted three plants!

 

[Zeedman]

Did a walk through in the garden today, and comparing all the progress of different things. Has anyone grown the purple pole bean called 'Carminat'? Mackerel, this is a great variety. It's my first try with it, and the seller said it blows away other purple heirloom beans. That seemed a worthy challenge, and it actually seems to be true. The plant is loaded with pods already, and from top to bottom, literally. It's higher than 6 feet and winding back down a bit now. I don't usually eat the beans in their first grow out, but I think I will with this one. There is just so many pods. This has got to be a record for pre-August in my area AND with all the terrible weather we've had; Northeastern and Louisiana have pods too but not nearly this many. Most of my bush beans are not this far along. Too bad I only planted three plants!

I grow several purple-podded pole beans already, and Carminat looks like something worth trying (as does Monte Gusto, which Johnny's also sells). If I can just get the beans I already have to produce some seed, I might get around to them.

 

[heirloomgal]

Here's some pics of 'Carminat' -top of plant, middle and bottom.

 

[Zeedman]

Carminat looks like a purple-podded filet bean. At present, two pole filet beans (Emerite and Fortex) alternate as my main crop snap bean. That looks like a possible candidate for addition to that rotation... if it turns out to be stringless & freeze well.