A Seed Saver's Garden

[Jack Holloway]

... One of the kids requesting seeds specifically asked for anything I had which was crossed! ...

Not so much with beans, but with other like tomatoes, peppers, squash, etc., hybrids are supposed to be crosses. You could mention that growing out the seeds from the fruits of hybrids could be fun to play with. Some of them marked as hybrids aren't though. Or if they are hybrids, the parents are so much alike that there is very little difference when the generations down from them. I've seen Legend tomato marked as a hybrid in seed companies catalogs. It isn't. I think some seed companies mark seeds as hybrids to discourage people from saving seed from them.

 

[heirloomgal]

Not so much with beans, but with other like tomatoes, peppers, squash, etc., hybrids are supposed to be crosses. You could mention that growing out the seeds from the fruits of hybrids could be fun to play with. Some of them marked as hybrids aren't though. Or if they are hybrids, the parents are so much alike that there is very little difference when the generations down from them. I've seen Legend tomato marked as a hybrid in seed companies catalogs. It isn't. I think some seed companies mark seeds as hybrids to discourage people from saving seed from them.

I agree Jack, I bought a bush bean called 'Outlaw' in 2021 and the packet listed it as a hybrid. It has become more widely grown as a commercial green bean since then, and have been able to find more info about it. It's not a hybrid, I imagine they put that on the packet to discourage trying to save the seed. I've seen that with peppers too, I've grown Gong Bao for the last few years and it's always come true to type though the tag on the original plant said hybrid F1.

I didn't think of mentioning that to him! There are so few open pollinated tomatoes on the seed shelves he could have found hybrid seeds easily. I think these kids have been watching Lofthouse videos online and are really new to gardening in general. He did ask for a bit of advice in starting out, about identifying crosses and such. Warmed my heart that the young ones are so interested in such gardening projects, they made pretty large seed requests.

 

[Jack Holloway]

@heirloomgal If you can/want and he stays in contact with you, keep encouraging him. It can be difficult to find mentors/people to listen at that age.

 

[flowerbug]

...
I didn't think of mentioning that to him! There are so few open pollinated tomatoes on the seed shelves he could have found hybrid seeds easily. I think these kids have been watching Lofthouse videos online and are really new to gardening in general. He did ask for a bit of advice in starting out, about identifying crosses and such. Warmed my heart that the young ones are so interested in such gardening projects, they made pretty large seed requests.

i have a ton of beans that can use a new home. ones that i won't grow again. not too many kids are doing that here yet.

the main thing about crosses is being observant about what you are planting, write down notes and take pictures if you have to. that ways when you are harvesting you will notice seeds that are different.

as for the actual process i use it is very manual, shelling all the beans by hand and observing how the seeds are coming out of the pods. i am sometimes selecting for more easy shelling beans (and sometimes ok with a bit of shatter) compared to the parental variety.

good lighting, a shallow large tray to spread things out for comparison.

sorting into groups of selections for replanting.

looking at size and shapes of the beans and their finish (matte or shiney, etc.).

of course color and pattern variations which can change with some beans based upon the quality and climate or season.

a lot of factors, but things to consider.

keeping track of all of this, where different selections are planted, having enough space...

fences. must have fences if you are planting out only a few seeds and want to see what happens with them. if a critter gets them there goes your trial.

 

[Zeedman]

i have a ton of beans that can use a new home. ones that i won't grow again. not too many kids are doing that here yet.

the main thing about crosses is being observant about what you are planting, write down notes and take pictures if you have to. that ways when you are harvesting you will notice seeds that are different.

as for the actual process i use it is very manual, shelling all the beans by hand and observing how the seeds are coming out of the pods. i am sometimes selecting for more easy shelling beans (and sometimes ok with a bit of shatter) compared to the parental variety.

good lighting, a shallow large tray to spread things out for comparison.

sorting into groups of selections for replanting.

looking at size and shapes of the beans and their finish (matte or shiney, etc.).

of course color and pattern variations which can change with some beans based upon the quality and climate or season.

a lot of factors, but things to consider.

keeping track of all of this, where different selections are planted, having enough space...

fences. must have fences if you are planting out only a few seeds and want to see what happens with them. if a critter gets them there goes your trial.

To all of that good advice, I would add - pay close attention to the individual plants. Look for good traits (earliness, productivity, disease resistance) and tag those plants for further development. Numbered tags & good notes will increase the likelihood of getting good results. If possible, open the first dry pod while on each plant, to examine the seed coat - if something interesting, make a point of tagging the plant & saving those pods separately (which may greatly reduce the time required to stabilize it). Any plants not tagged are automatically "bean pot".

And for beans, I would recommend sampling at least one pod from each plant as a snap. You wouldn't want to inadvertently overlook a great-flavored stringless snap while chasing seed coat color. As pretty as beans are, we need to remind ourselves that a pretty but unpalatable bean is unlikely to survive as anything other than a novelty. (says the bean pot, calling the kettle black )

 

[flowerbug]

To all of that good advice, I would add - pay close attention to the individual plants. Look for good traits (earliness, productivity, disease resistance) and tag those plants for further development. Numbered tags & good notes will increase the likelihood of getting good results. If possible, open the first dry pod while on each plant, to examine the seed coat - if something interesting, make a point of tagging the plant & saving those pods separately (which may greatly reduce the time required to stabilize it). Any plants not tagged are automatically "bean pot".

And for beans, I would recommend sampling at least one pod from each plant as a snap. You wouldn't want to inadvertently overlook a great-flavored stringless snap while chasing seed coat color. As pretty as beans are, we need to remind ourselves that a pretty but unpalatable bean is unlikely to survive as anything other than a novelty. (says the bean pot, calling the kettle black )

yes, to all of those too!

and also the other side of things, culling out plants that do not have your desired traits. asap... you don't want the bees moving undesireable pollen around.

 

[heirloomgal]

Wonderful info guys! As someone who found their first 'home grown' cross in 2022 (all others have been from other people's gardens so far) it's all information to tuck into my hat. I'm totally inexperienced when it comes to working with crosses.

 

[heirloomgal]

yes, to all of those too!

and also the other side of things, culling out plants that do not have your desired traits. asap... you don't want the bees moving undesireable pollen around.

It does amaze me how crosses can happen a great deal in some locations, and very seldom in others. I don't think much study or research has been put into this phenomenon; I find much of the discussion in regards to crosses and isolation distances fails to take this reality into account.

One of my pet peeves about our seed exchange, which is plausibly the largest org in the country interested in having people save seeds from their garden, is how formidable they make it seem. I know they are trying to help, trying to approach the topic from an 'educated' point of view, but what they are accomplishing is actually frightening people from saving seeds. Making them feel like their seed isn't 'good enough' or wasn't 'done right'. I feel like a I can speak to this since I've now conversed with so many people over e-mail via seed requests on the exchange and they are growing plants exactly as I am, but won't save their own seed. Or, if they do save their own seed they don't feel it's good enough to offer on the exchange. It's actually kinda crazy. People across the board seem to have lost confidence in themselves in this regard in a huge way. Or maybe they have some feeling that 'real' seeds come from companies or what they think are 'experts'. Reminds me of a neighbour whose wife won't eat from the husband's garden because she just doesn't feel it's correct, not hygenic enough or whatever. To her 'real' food comes from a store. He gives it all away to extended family, and makes lettuce and onion salads (which he loves).

Hard for a DIY gal like myself to understand!

 

[ducks4you]

Gosh, I had never thought that people would be discouraging seed saving by mislabeling as hybrid.

 

[Zeedman]

Gosh, I had never thought that people would be discouraging seed saving by mislabeling as hybrid.

Yes... and that is particularly egregious when labeling a bean as hybrid, since is economically impractical to produce & market hybrid legumes. Although some might start as hybrids (a.k.a. crosses) they are stabilized before release, and there are no hybrid beans sold commercially. However, I have grown several "hybrid" bitter melons (including the one in my avatar) that grew true from seed.