Chronicles of a Noob Garden and Gardener

[flowerbug]

...
Do people till cover crops, or just shovel them under? (I'm purchasing a tiller.)

i'm primarily a natural gardener and try to keep things as simple as possible. i've found that tilling makes more issues than it solves.

note that you are going from lawn to vegetable gardens. this will not be weed free and the more bare dirt you have and the edge along the lawn, even if done properly will be a source of weed seeds.

if you put an edge down in the ground a ways (depends upon your grass species you have in that area as to how deep you need to go) that will help keep the grass roots out but it does not keep the spray from the lawnmower, wind, rain, etc. from happening. if you mulch in a few feet along the edge (we use a few layers of cardboard to start and then top it off with mulch of any kind we can come up with). this will smother any remaining grasses and weeds there and gives a good barrier. you can also more easily get weeds out of the mulch if they happen than trying to get them out of the ground... and best of all it doesn't disturb the soil underneath which has the grass and weed seeds in there. you may need to do this more than once but it isn't that hard to do. cardboard is often free. use the plain kinds with the less ink on them as possible, black ink is ok (colorized and plastic coated isn't worth it - i don't use that stuff).

i'm pretty opinionated on the topic of tilling. i won't till any more. i'll dig with a shovel or smother an area. the last garden i tilled was 8-10yrs ago and that was because it was hard baked clay and i had to level it. i borrowed the tiller from the neighbor. it was hot and dry so there weren't any worms near the surface to kill. was a royal B*CH to do. won't do it again.

at present if i need a whole garden done i dig it by hand with a shovel. my body needs the exercise and i have the time. we also smother weedy spaces and perennial gardens with cardboard and wood chips which will decay and then that humus can be used in vegetable gardens.

for the existing vegetable gardens we have them pretty well under control. that doesn't mean they are weed free, but what it does mean is that i don't have to dig/till a whole garden. i can scrape the surface clean with a scuffle/strap hoe and then leave them on the surface to dry out. eventually the worms get them taken care of. at the end of a season i dig a small area of the garden to bury garden debris so i'm not disturbing the whole garden each season. this way the soil community isn't disturbed (worms and other creatures that much).

i do have some wilder gardens where i'm trying different things out. weeds happen in there. they can be chaotic, but i consider them more interesting and fun to learn from and play around with. Mom hates 'em. she likes bare dirt. i like diversity. we are like yin and yang, back and forth, etc.

you can see our gardens via http://www.anthive.com/

 

[flowerbug]

Here are a few more pics to give better perspective on the entirety of the garden/yard. The first was taken from the deck this week, and gives a good feel for the mulch, straw, and composting areas as they are currently. The second is from the back corner of the yard looking up toward the house. One thing to point out from pic 2 is the open area under the deck. The side facing the yard is roughly 16'x6'. We plan to trellis that and grow blackberries there. The third picture is from the opposite side of the yard from the garden--not quite all the way to the fence. It gives a pretty good feel for the size, openness, and utter CRAP of a weedfest that is my back yard.

if you have kids and animals running around on it, i wouldn't worry about what it looks like with weeds, just mow it regularly (the taller you can leave it the better IMO as grass will recover and smother out the weeds more) to keep it trimmed even. that will select for the survivors and hold up to traffic better.

 

[baymule]

My garden is fenced, 70’x100’. We have pure white sand, think beach without the benefit of the ocean. We have owned this place 4 years. We have amended the soil with everything we could get our hands on. I don’t till, just keep throwing stuff on top. Now have a rich soil about ten inches deep before hitting the sand. The garden keeps getting better. Our first year was a total bomb, everything died. Last spring we got a bale of boxes and pulled tape off, then spread them as far as they went. The weather was screwy, but we still did ok. Can’t wait for spring planting!

 

[Ben E Lou]

you have a very impressive goal... looking at your lay out you have no thyme? whats up with that?

At the bottom of the stairs coming down from the deck (pictured from far away in post #39 of this thread) there's a 4x8 space and then a little extra around the corner. My wife wants me to put the bulk of the herbs there so she doesn't have to go down to the big garden every time she wants a little something for the kitchen. (The herbs planned in the main garden are more for companion/pest issues than for primary harvesting.) I plan to grow basil, cilantro, dill, marjoram, oregano, parsley, sage, and thyme in that space, and rosemary and mint in containers nearby as well.

germination table...
View attachment 29777

or are you buying seedlings?

Ah, that! I'm using this mini-greenhouse on the back deck with a small ceramic space heater. I tested the setup a few nights ago when it got down to 26. The greenhouse remained in the 65-77 degree range all night. I have two heating mats on the way, and plenty of trays.

...i have the time...

And that's the bottom line for me this year on tilling. I can till much faster than I can dig. The plan to mitigate tilling/weed issues is...

1. Immediately after tilling, I'll be introducing roughly 2,000 earthworms to the garden area.
2. Mulching the whole growing area with shredded leaves
3. Using cardboard to cover all walking pathways

I don't intend to till every year, and perhaps never will again, but I do think it's appropriate for my situation this year.

if you have kids and animals running around on it, i wouldn't worry about what it looks like with weeds, just mow it regularly (the taller you can leave it the better IMO as grass will recover and smother out the weeds more) to keep it trimmed even. that will select for the survivors and hold up to traffic better.

Heh. I don't think grass can "recover" when--as far as I can tell--grass has never "covered" in the back yard in the first place. The home was built in the 90s. Here's what we know about the history of it.

1. Summers are quite dry here, and prior to us putting up the privacy fence when we bought it in 2015, pretty much the entire back yard was in full sun from sunrise to sunset all summer long. Since then, roughly 90% of it is in full sun.
2. Pretty much every summer there's a stretch of no rain that's long enough to destroy unwatered grass. (Ex: Just this past summer I had the front yard pretty much recovered and starting to look good. Then we went on a long family vacation and didn't have someone watering. Nearly all the grass was dead when we returned and never recovered through the rest of the summer. Weeds grew all in the front and I had to pretty much start over in the fall.)
3. The owner from at least 2001 (possibly earlier/original) to 2014 did not take care of the *front* lawn in any way. Even the front yard had large bare spots in it when we purchased the house. There's simply no reason to believe she did anything to the back, so we're talking over a decade of harsh conditions with no mitigation back there.
4. I tried to do something myself with the back yard in 2015, then talked to a lawn service guy in 2016. He basically said that I need a full irrigation system back there before I can get serious about growing grass. It's just too big to water with conventional sprinklers, and doesn't get enough consistent rain to thrive otherwise.

So, long story short...the back yard is less than 5% grass. There are entire hundreds-of-square-feet sections that are 100% weeds and bare ground. I'm thinking that once we get the kids through college we'll deal with the back lawn. (Or I'll make it all a garden before then!)

Last spring we got a bale of boxes and pulled tape off, then spread them as far as they went. The weather was screwy, but we still did ok. Can’t wait for spring planting!

Bale of boxes? You mean just cardboard?

 

[Ben E Lou]

Updates...

• The 60ish garlic plants I mentioned earlier are coming in like gangbusters now. It makes me hopeful that the work I did on composting and ph adjustment is paying off.
• Speaking of compost, I just used a little in each hole I dug for garlic and left the piles in tact back in November, but I've now spread the compost over the entire vegetable section. It probably averages 3-4 inches deep. Some of it is unfinished, but I'll let the earthworms deal with that the next couple of months for me. (@flowerbug, that's another reason I want to till this year--to get some of that unfinished compost out of the cold where it can complete the decomposition process.
  
• I've either purchased directly or ordered online all (I think) of the seeds I should need for this coming calendar year, and put the plan together for planting dates. It's attached.
• The first plant (Kale) is set to be started in the greenhouse next weekend. Woohoo!

 

[Ben E Lou]

@majorcatfish Here’s where the bulk of the herbs will be located—the 8'x4' area from the bottom of the stairs to the downspout. We’ll plant some extra basil and put the mint container in the area on the other side of the downspout as well.

 

[Ridgerunner]

At the bottom of the stairs coming down from the deck (pictured from far away in post #39 of this thread) there's a 4x8 space and then a little extra around the corner. My wife wants me to put the bulk of the herbs there so she doesn't have to go down to the big garden every time she wants a little something for the kitchen. (The herbs planned in the main garden are more for companion/pest issues than for primary harvesting.) I plan to grow basil, cilantro, dill, marjoram, oregano, parsley, sage, and thyme in that space, and rosemary and mint in containers nearby as well.

A 4 x 8 area for all that. Could be interesting. Have you grown them before? I grew all those except marjoram when I was in Arkansas. The oregano, sage, and thyme should be perennials and come back from roots each year. Thyme did not take up a lot of room, the sage formed a decent sized clump. Oregano can take over. Mine formed a dense clump of roots and just kept spreading. I dehydrated about 3 quarts of dried crushed oregano each year so I needed a fair amount, That clump grew to three feet in diameter. I kept it from spreading any further by taking a shovel and cutting the clump back to size plus took a chunk out of the middle and filled it with compost.. You can keep the clump much smaller than that but you need to be stern with oregano.

Parsley is a biennial, it flowers and seeds the second year, but I could never get it to live through our hot dry summers. I used it fresh and dehydrated some. When I started out I used transplants of dill and basil but eventually just grew them from seed. Cilantro was always from seed. If I let them go to seed in the open garden I'd get a few basil volunteers the next year but cilantro and dill volunteers would be thick. Those three are easy to start from seeds.

Something about cilantro. If you use the leaves as an herb it is called cilantro. If you let let it go to seed you get small balls of spice called coriander. Technically the plant is called coriander and not cilantro. Somebody on here corrected me on that a few years back but I sill think of the plant as cilantro.

If you use it you might want to add chives to your list. It's another perennial, once you get a start it fairly quickly forms a clump of bulbs that produce a lot. You can use the chives scapes (flowers) like garlic scapes in salads or stir fries. Chives are one of the easiest herbs for me and quite productive.

There will be some trial and error in getting that herb garden going but I think it is a great idea to have it close like that.

 

[baymule]

Yes, we got a bale of cardboard from Tractor Supply, busted the bundle, pulled tape and spread over some of the garden. Then we topped it with wood chip mulch. We never seem to get enough to cover the whole garden at one time, we just sorta cover a new spot each year.

If you want grass to grow, shade the roots. That means humus in the form of grass clippings, hay or leaves. Do you have a mulching mower? Gather bags of leaves from the curbside, dump, run over with the mower and water them in (to keep your hard earned mulch from blowing away). Plant clover in the front yard in the fall, let it grow and flower, then mulch mow it down. It will add humus and the roots will have nodules of nitrogen in them and will fertilize the grass. What kind of grass is in the front yard? If San Augustine, cut it high, never short. The grass itself will help to shade the roots.

 

[flowerbug]

Updates...

• Speaking of compost, I just used a little in each hole I dug for garlic and left the piles in tact back in November, but I've now spread the compost over the entire vegetable section. It probably averages 3-4 inches deep. Some of it is unfinished, but I'll let the earthworms deal with that the next couple of months for me. (@flowerbug, that's another reason I want to till this year--to get some of that unfinished compost out of the cold where it can complete the decomposition process.

in a dry/hot climate where you struggle to keep plant roots cooler you will find that you don't mind things being on the surface to help shade and cover the soil from the sun and wind.

we have a lot of clay here too. i don't worry at all that the worms will not be able to figure out how to eventually deal with it. the only reasons i bury stuff here are because Mom hates it when i leave stuff looking "untidy" or that i need the elevation (for protection against flash floods that can happen at times when it rains pretty hard). if you want to improve your drainage in clay night crawlers will help as they dig large burrows down several yards. they also like it if there is some surface mulch to use.

 

[flowerbug]

...

Re: the garden near the house. that is actually the best spot for what you are planning there. in permaculture the ideas are to do things in ways that serve more than one function. in having a garden closer to the house the other good aspects are that it makes it easier to discourage various critters and you are more likely to observe, harvest, weed and etc, it more than if it is further out back.


...Re: tilling...

"And that's the bottom line for me this year on tilling. I can till much faster than I can dig."

"The plan to mitigate tilling/weed issues is...

1. Immediately after tilling, I'll be introducing roughly 2,000 earthworms to the garden area.
2. Mulching the whole growing area with shredded leaves
3. Using cardboard to cover all walking pathways

I don't intend to till every year, and perhaps never will again, but I do think it's appropriate for my situation this year."

good luck. the more you can smother it with cardboard and only leave the open bits of space in the rows the less you'll have to weed later. expect the worms to take care of some or most of the cardboard by fall. you may have chunks of it left here or there but that's no big deal, just put it under the next layer in the fall. worms love it.

Re: lawn areas

"Heh. I don't think grass can "recover" when--as far as I can tell--grass has never "covered" in the back yard in the first place. The home was built in the 90s. Here's what we know about the history of it.

1. Summers are quite dry here, and prior to us putting up the privacy fence when we bought it in 2015, pretty much the entire back yard was in full sun from sunrise to sunset all summer long. Since then, roughly 90% of it is in full sun.
2. Pretty much every summer there's a stretch of no rain that's long enough to destroy unwatered grass. (Ex: Just this past summer I had the front yard pretty much recovered and starting to look good. Then we went on a long family vacation and didn't have someone watering. Nearly all the grass was dead when we returned and never recovered through the rest of the summer. Weeds grew all in the front and I had to pretty much start over in the fall.)
3. The owner from at least 2001 (possibly earlier/original) to 2014 did not take care of the *front* lawn in any way. Even the front yard had large bare spots in it when we purchased the house. There's simply no reason to believe she did anything to the back, so we're talking over a decade of harsh conditions with no mitigation back there.
4. I tried to do something myself with the back yard in 2015, then talked to a lawn service guy in 2016. He basically said that I need a full irrigation system back there before I can get serious about growing grass. It's just too big to water with conventional sprinklers, and doesn't get enough consistent rain to thrive otherwise.

So, long story short...the back yard is less than 5% grass. There are entire hundreds-of-square-feet sections that are 100% weeds and bare ground. I'm thinking that once we get the kids through college we'll deal with the back lawn. (Or I'll make it all a garden before then!)

what you are observing in the grass is that it is likely going dormant, which is natural to what a lot of grasses do when faced with dry spells. mow it back some, but it is ok to leave it taller too so that the roots are protected from the sun.

the way you could get it covered would be to introduce clovers, yarrows, birdsfoot treefoil, and other grasses so that you have a diversity in species. the yarrows we have growing here will stay green even in the hottest and dryest parts of the summers we have. some people also like how it smells, it just so happens that we both react to it so while i like how it smells when cut i also have to avoid doing the cutting myself...

don't get stuck on grass IMO. just keep mowing it regularly, but if you can mow higher up than really low that helps a lot to keep certain things from happening (weeds you don't want and baking/drying by the wind and sun) and encourages the plants you already have (and keeps the soil shaded and the worms happier ).