Columbus Statue Removal NYC

[Nyboy]

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/protesters-call-columbus-day-removal-statue-article-1.3551324 Another I was taught a hero in school, still more disappointed in Abe Lincoln and his treatment of first Americans

 

[canesisters]

I keep wondering how it's logical to pluck historical figures out of history and apply modern ideas & beliefs to them and then hold them accountable for not being and believing whatever is today's politically correct ism.
We're having our own issues with monuments down here ...
It's ALL rubbish in my mind. History is history. It's purpose is for us to learn from... not for us to copy. If they did it wrong, then we need to be doubly sure to do it right and REMEMBER what and how they messed up so badly.. and to be sure that our children's children's children remember too.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Now, now Cane. You are being logical, reasonable, and thinking for yourself. That's a brave thing to do. Hopefully the mob doesn't find you and take it out on you.

 

[baymule]

According to the hysterical mob, since my ancestors owned slaves and fathered slave babies, I am automatically stained forever, a racist, and should jump off a cliff. I loathe and despise the idiots who foster such insanity and spread their hysterical pile of cow plop around as truth. Morons.

 

[canesisters]

Now, now Cane. You are being logical, reasonable, and thinking for yourself. That's a brave thing to do. Hopefully the mob doesn't find you and take it out on you.

It's actually gotten so bad down here that people HAVE been killed during protests and marches about taking them down or leaving the monuments in place.
Ludicrous!!!
Who said that monuments should be happy friendly things!!??? Isn't it Auschwitz that is still standing just as it was left as a monument to the horror that happened there?

I'd better get off my soapbox before I really get rolling.

 

[aftermidnight]

Really sad isn't it. History is history, there's both good and bad, hopefully we learn from both. Sweeping the bad under the rug, pretending it never happened is going down the wrong path. If all is erased what stops future generations from repeating past mistakes.

 

[seedcorn]

We are what we are due to our past. Although I do agree with removing statues from places of honor if they are exposed later as deviants-thinking certain sports “hero’s”.

I’ve always questioned why you see statues of people who led open rebellion against the USA. They were great generals. We aren’t still fighting that war are we? Do we see statues of Jesse James, Dillinger, Capone-who was loved in Chicago for his food kitchens, etc...?

Statues of Indian chiefs, no problem as they were cheated of their land as well as abused by “civilized Christian” people. IMO national disgrace.

 

[Zeedman]

I keep wondering how it's logical to pluck historical figures out of history and apply modern ideas & beliefs to them and then hold them accountable for not being and believing whatever is today's politically correct ism.
We're having our own issues with monuments down here ...
It's ALL rubbish in my mind. History is history. It's purpose is for us to learn from... not for us to copy. If they did it wrong, then we need to be doubly sure to do it right and REMEMBER what and how they messed up so badly.. and to be sure that our children's children's children remember too.

Really sad isn't it. History is history, there's both good and bad, hopefully we learn from both. Sweeping the bad under the rug, pretending it never happened is going down the wrong path. If all is erased what stops future generations from repeating past mistakes.

Added emphasis mine... and I couldn't have said it better.

Political correctness has given petty, spiteful, ill-informed people a tool to attack anything & everything we respect or idolize. The majority of those protesting do not even know - or care - about the facts & historical context of the issues they are protesting; they are just parroting someone else's regurgitated talking points. It is tempting to look backward, to retroactively find fault with those who built this nation (or others) and attempt to judge them by our standards - but those people lived within the laws & morality of their time. Like us, they felt they were doing right at the time... and who's to say we will be judged any better by our descendants? There were errors made, and great injustices, but ultimately we learned & evolved as a nation. The wonderful thing about a free nation is its ability to improve itself over time. The danger is that we will forget what that freedom means, and how easily it can be lost.

Re-writing or erasing history is the first step to forgetting it, and for the sake of our children, that should never be allowed to happen. It is important to look beyond the current slur of "nazi", to remember what that actually stood for, how the Third Reich began, how they seized power over the population - and to ensure we never go down that path. It is important to remember the conflicts & politics which led to the Civil War, and when we consider monuments, to remember that both sides fought for what they thought was right. Wars are fought when efforts at peaceful resolution fail; and given the present divisions in our nation, we need study the past to find a better way forward. It is important to remember the injustices committed against the indigenous peoples, and against those of different races.

But it is also important to remember that many of those past injustices have been corrected, and our nation moved on. Those who would protest a past they have never personally experienced should move on as well.

It deeply concerns me that a whole generation who lived through World War Two, and who experienced first hand the oppression of Communism, is passing away. Those people can tell us of real crisis, real persecution, and the dangers which are possible when the world forgets what evil men can do.

 

[Ridgerunner]

True history is complicated. Jackson's policies on relocating the Indians, abhorrent as they are now to most of us, were fairly popular at the time and not just among the people that wanted to take the Indians' land. Columbus was not the only explorer/colonizer that treated the native populations of the New World, the East, Africa, and even parts of Europe as less than human. The superiority of the western man over the savages was a common belief. Slavery was a component in causing the Civil War, I think Bloody Kansas demonstrates how strongly some people felt about slavery. But sectionalism and tariffs probably had a lot more to do with why many fought on a certain side. Lee was torn between his oath to the US Government and his loyalty to his state. Sectionalism won. The swastika was an ancient symbol probably having something to do with the circle of life that the Nazis mad a hated symbol of their policies. I think white supremists have done the same thing to the Confederate Battle Flag. I can see why some people consider it to be a symbol of extreme prejudice and hate it so.

I personally do not condemn people in history for following popular belief and policies of their time. Maybe if we could educate people as to why they held those beliefs and why we now consider them wrong we could see some correlation to what is happening now. Things I consider hateful are still going on today. Maybe instead of tearing down monuments and statues use that money to erect educational materials. I don't have much hope of that happening though. That would require some calm thoughtful cooperation.

Do you ever wonder what policies we currently consider enlightened will be held in contempt by people in the future?

 

[thistlebloom]

Don't make the mistake of thinking that we, in these times, are morally or intellectually superior than people in the past whose mistakes we see with 20/20 vision.
We are all capable of believing a lie.
WW2 was not so very long ago.