Long Storage Squash

digitS'

Garden Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
19,777
Reaction score
9,502
Points
457
Location
border, ID/WA(!)
A number of outfits now sell for that Tetsukabuto Squash.

A hybrid of C. moschata and C. maxima. Outrageous! I wonder if the seeds of those Tetsukabuto are viable. Johnny's says that it "Can also be used as a rootstock for enhancing vigor and soil disease resistance in melon, watermelon, and cucumber." What!!??

I'm now dependant on Johnny's for the Cha Cha, f1. I probably need to save and plant 100 seeds of their Buttercup neighbors to see if I can get a useful cross like @flowerbug 's.

Steve
 

flowerbug

Garden Addicted
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Messages
6,654
Reaction score
5,252
Points
297
Location
mid-Michigan, USoA
A number of outfits now sell for that Tetsukabuto Squash.

A hybrid of C. moschata and C. maxima. Outrageous! I wonder if the seeds of those Tetsukabuto are viable. Johnny's says that it "Can also be used as a rootstock for enhancing vigor and soil disease resistance in melon, watermelon, and cucumber." What!!??

I'm now dependant on Johnny's for the Cha Cha, f1. I probably need to save and plant 100 seeds of their Buttercup neighbors to see if I can get a useful cross like @flowerbug 's.

Steve
i really don't know what i have here. i sure don't see those ends like the Buttercup in the picture had. not any more. does Green Kabocha have a funny bottom? i don't know as i've never knowingly grown them. :)

i'm now looking at Green Kabocha squash and have finally found a picture of the bottom. LOL whatever we started with, sure was not this, but we've ended up here in part. ok, now go look at pictures of Buttercup squash, some look just like Green Kabocha...

we have squash that are sometimes shaped just like the GK and other times like the Buttercup (that squarer sides shape but not that much of the pronounced bottom). add some that are splashed with orange and you've got our blend/cross/mutt whatever you wanna call it. SabreToothedSquab :) now i'm hongry for some roast squab.
 

digitS'

Garden Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
19,777
Reaction score
9,502
Points
457
Location
border, ID/WA(!)
Buttercup varies some with the size of buttons, @flowerbug . There are also "more refined" varieties than Burgess available now.

to keep the weeds down.
I've been thinking about how squash plants are very useful in suppressing weeds in a Three Sisters Garden.

It took me several tries at growing corn, beans and squash together before I came up with a combination that worked well. Satisfied, I stopped growing them together. Huh?

I had several problems. Pole beans interfered with corn growth and I would step on squash vines trying to harvest the sweet corn and green beans. What worked for me was to set up poles for the beans to climb on. And, to leave everything to the end of the season.

That meant: winter squash, dry beans and flour corn. Okay, however, we really don't eat that much soup beans.

Corn - I can quite easily follow @seedcorn 's suggestion of soaking the kernels of flour corn and running them through the food processor before using them for cornbread. Investing in a mill isn't even necessary. We eat cornbread quite often. Sure. But, a nice stand of corn, unencumbered by bean vines, can also produce more cornmeal than needed. If you think about it - that's wonderful!

Might be olde but I can't quite fit a prehistoric diet into my personal life.

Steve
 

flowerbug

Garden Addicted
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Messages
6,654
Reaction score
5,252
Points
297
Location
mid-Michigan, USoA
Buttercup varies some with the size of buttons, @flowerbug . There are also "more refined" varieties than Burgess available now.


I've been thinking about how squash plants are very useful in suppressing weeds in a Three Sisters Garden.

It took me several tries at growing corn, beans and squash together before I came up with a combination that worked well. Satisfied, I stopped growing them together. Huh?

I had several problems. Pole beans interfered with corn growth and I would step on squash vines trying to harvest the sweet corn and green beans. What worked for me was to set up poles for the beans to climb on. And, to leave everything to the end of the season.

That meant: winter squash, dry beans and flour corn. Okay, however, we really don't eat that much soup beans.

Corn - I can quite easily follow @seedcorn 's suggestion of soaking the kernels of flour corn and running them through the food processor before using them for cornbread. Investing in a mill isn't even necessary. We eat cornbread quite often. Sure. But, a nice stand of corn, unencumbered by bean vines, can also produce more cornmeal than needed. If you think about it - that's wonderful!

Might be olde but I can't quite fit a prehistoric diet into my personal life.

Steve
thanks! the three sisters method is likely planted in a clearing and then left for the summer - as in, i don't think they often stayed in one place if they didn't have to. so dry beans, fall squash and corn for corn meal are likely what was aimed at.

if you are going for sweet corn, fresh beans and summer squash those vines are hard not to step on and you probably want to hold off on planting the climbing beans a few weeks. people say the squash vines help act as a weed supressant but also a deterrent for other creatures who otherwise like to raid corn and beans. if you plant enough some loss is ok.

likely the start of a three sisters method may have come about from the trash heaps that people would have been making (using mostly organic and natural materials all trash heaps would be a good place to grow squash). i have no idea of what native practices were with their poo/pee but if they also threw that in the trash heap it would have likely ended up with some pretty nice squash the following season. a few random reject beans tossed away and you've got two elements out of three without any planning at all. could have also had some reject kernels of corn... wallah! (voila! as the right ponders say it) and there you go...
 

digitS'

Garden Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
19,777
Reaction score
9,502
Points
457
Location
border, ID/WA(!)
Studies of population density show that food production was serious business in many Native American communities. An urban class was maintained in some places.

With today's transportation and food storage options, I can maintain an Easy Garden ;).

If I was smart enough, I might have an Aztec floating garden and a diet of fresh veggies, fish and duck.

:) Steve
 

Ridgerunner

Garden Master
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
6,933
Reaction score
5,878
Points
377
Location
Southeast Louisiana Zone 9A
Yes Steve, that was the original three sisters method, dried pole beans, winter squash, and dried corn. We discussed this a few years back. Sweet corn, bush or green beans, and summer squash did not work for the reasons you mentioned.

Flowerbug different Native American populations did things differently. Some had permanent towns or villages (check out Poverty Point in Louisiana), some used more of a slash and burn system where the town or village might move every few years as they depleted the soil. While people may leave in the summer to trade, make war, or do some hunter-gatherer stuff, I think you will find that they left a population behind. Someone had to weed the gardens and protect them from wildlife or other Native Americans. They could not just plant them and leave and expect to come back to anything worth coming back to.
 

bobm

Garden Addicted
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
3,565
Reaction score
2,118
Points
277
Location
SW Washington
thanks! the three sisters method is likely planted in a clearing and then left for the summer - as in, i don't think they often stayed in one place if they didn't have to. so dry beans, fall squash and corn for corn meal are likely what was aimed at.

if you are going for sweet corn, fresh beans and summer squash those vines are hard not to step on and you probably want to hold off on planting the climbing beans a few weeks. people say the squash vines help act as a weed supressant but also a deterrent for other creatures who otherwise like to raid corn and beans. if you plant enough some loss is ok.

likely the start of a three sisters method may have come about from the trash heaps that people would have been making (using mostly organic and natural materials all trash heaps would be a good place to grow squash). i have no idea of what native practices were with their poo/pee but if they also threw that in the trash heap it would have likely ended up with some pretty nice squash the following season. a few random reject beans tossed away and you've got two elements out of three without any planning at all. could have also had some reject kernels of corn... wallah! (voila! as the right ponders say it) and there you go...
Since the Indians did not have non permiable fences, if they were to leave on a Summer Vacation, they could not keep Benjamin Bunny out much less squirrels, marmots, raccoons, deer, or a neighboring tribe to get the benefit of any crop upon their return. Wishful thinking ...
 

flowerbug

Garden Addicted
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Messages
6,654
Reaction score
5,252
Points
297
Location
mid-Michigan, USoA
Since the Indians did not have non permiable fences, if they were to leave on a Summer Vacation, they could not keep Benjamin Bunny out much less squirrels, marmots, raccoons, deer, or a neighboring tribe to get the benefit of any crop upon their return. Wishful thinking ...
at times i've planted things without any fences at all and gotten returns from them. fences just increase the chances, but even with fences you can still have problems from weather or raiders. once population density means you have to guard plantings then you are in a much different form of culture than the primary hunting and gathering ways. i'm quite sure there was some transition...

with the northern populations of natives, i'm not really sure how many stayed put for the winter vs. went south a ways to get away from the worst of it. there's just too many years of history that are not recorded/written down and i'm not sure how well their oral history or pictographs worked.

i'm admitting i don't know here. <---

yet, the glaciers were gone only for about 10,000yrs so whatever tribes and habituation happened and how the settling went before and after the ice ages i don't think they know the full details yet (and may not ever). *shrug*
 

henless

Deeply Rooted
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
385
Reaction score
702
Points
187
Location
East Texas Zone 8b
I know this thread is 8 months old, but I still have 2 of my Cherokee tan pumpkins on the wire shelf in my dining room. I would have had 3, but gave one to the chickens the other day. It was perfect on the inside and smelled wonderful! I harvested the last of the Cherokees this past Oct/Nov 2018. These were the last ones to ripen. The rest have been baked & dehydrated.

IMG_6659.JPG
 

digitS'

Garden Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
19,777
Reaction score
9,502
Points
457
Location
border, ID/WA(!)
Wow, @henless !

I'm checking those out ..

, even if the environment here is very different from the one you have experienced this (& last ;)) growing season.

Steve
 

Latest posts

Top