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seedcorn

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@Beekissed agree 100%.
Humans are the worlds largest polluters. Huge problem to going back to nature, is it takes a lot of machinery or labor. Since we are eliminating technology (machinery, energy uses) more labor, more kids (labor) thus more pollution. Dog chasing his tail.
 

flowerbug

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@Beekissed agree 100%.
Humans are the worlds largest polluters. Huge problem to going back to nature, is it takes a lot of machinery or labor. Since we are eliminating technology (machinery, energy uses) more labor, more kids (labor) thus more pollution. Dog chasing his tail.
not true.

the pollution comes from certain practices which are not required for growing crops.

avoid those and you have a decent closed system.

yes, it does mean labor, but two people can handle an acre of land easily and still have time for other things. a collective group of people can work to manage gardens, orchards, vinyards, etc and also some livestock. none of this requires much in the way of metals or pollution but it is a different way of living than what most people are experiencing now.

still i think it is a much better way to live because you cannot exceed the carrying capacity of the land so you must learn to regulate your own population and learn to work with nature instead of being destructive.
 

seedcorn

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Really? What practices are not required to grow feed items? Enough to feed a family? @Beekissed is correct.
 

flowerbug

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Really? What practices are not required to grow feed items? Enough to feed a family? @Beekissed is correct.
i don't need petrochemicals, electrofried fertilizers, manufactured pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, or large machinery. some trace minerals might be needed in some locations but those are called trace nutrients for a reason. metal and metal contamination of waste streams is the main reason a lot of our current waste stream organic materials should probably be avoided (sewage sludge). stop contaminating organic wastes with industrial wastes and you put an end to a lot of pollution. we already well know the damage done by all the rest of the above things and what they do to the world.

none of that is a requirement for growing food to feed a family.

how do i know this is not required? i've been doing it for years and it is working out just fine.
 

seedcorn

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i don't need petrochemicals, electrofried fertilizers, manufactured pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, or large machinery. some trace minerals might be needed in some locations but those are called trace nutrients for a reason. metal and metal contamination of waste streams is the main reason a lot of our current waste stream organic materials should probably be avoided (sewage sludge). stop contaminating organic wastes with industrial wastes and you put an end to a lot of pollution. we already well know the damage done by all the rest of the above things and what they do to the world.

none of that is a requirement for growing food to feed a family.

how do i know this is not required? i've been doing it for years and it is working out just fine.
Grow enough food to feed just you and your Mom and get back to me. Year round supply, not just to eat out of the garden. No machinery, nothing bought. I’ll be waiting.
 

flowerbug

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Grow enough food to feed just you and your Mom and get back to me. Year round supply, not just to eat out of the garden. No machinery, nothing bought. I’ll be waiting.
Mom won't do anything like that. she likes her junk foods and she's picky about what vegetables she'll eat. even with those restrictions we grow enough food for about half our needs without even trying really hard - that's 1/2 of what you ask. that doesn't count what we give away, if we were into hoarding and not sharing that would be closer to 3/4. we give a lot of produce away.

also there is a lot of wasted space here that could be growing vegetables which isn't and there are no fruit trees or berry bushes, which could be planted.

i'm happy with what i'm doing, but i also know that a lot more could be done.

as a part of a community of gardeners and people who raised animals we'd do ok and would provide a lot of extra food for others and that's just off our area that is already being managed somehow. if a SHTF scenario came about i don't have any doubts about my abilties or methods. i've seen how it goes for many years. given more land and people willing to work for their food we'd be fine. the lands around us would be vastly more productive if managed for diversity and not monocultured and poisoned as they are now.
 

bobm

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Here in SW Washington, we purchased one of the largest cul de sac lots with a house in this 120 lot subdivision. Flat topography, Mediteranian weather pattern.
At first I thought that I could grow a fairly large garden of a variety of field crops as well as fruit trees.
the only crops that I had actually harvested was radishes, leaf letuce and cherry tomatoes. Anything else had marginal success to complete failure. So NOT worth growing. Then I found out that this whole subdivision was built on top of a former swamp land. The developer had braught in ruble rock, then toped it off with truckload upon a truckload to any dirt that he could find from commercial building sights... ie. clayee to hardpan , to rocky soils. So, I dug a dry creekbed from the very back corner to the front yard sidewalk neat the driveway for drainage and used that dirt to make hills 2-3 feet tall and enclosed them with 100-700 boulders. I then mixed in peat moss, sand, and composed. Worked well for 4 years, that is until this year. when I noticed that those hills bad become waterloged from 3 weeks of rainfall and plants there were turning yellow. They were DROWNING ! So, on the front hill I dug 8 French drains around it's perimiter, mixed in sand and compost, then replanted some of the Himalayan ferns, Mugho pines and corral bells. In the back yard, I dug another dry creek bed ( lined it with river rock up to 12" diameter and installed pond pebbles consisting of pea gravel to round rock up to 2" dia. along a large hill for additional drainage ( water flowed for 2 full days from the bottom of that hill's sides into the new dry creek bed, so working now ) . I will have to .do quite a bit more of additional diging for more drainage and planting ornamentals. Store purchased food it is , since conditions on this property are NOT condusive to produsing self sustainind food supply by any streatcth of imagination or wishful thinking. :caf
 

TwinCitiesPanda

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Here in SW Washington, we purchased one of the largest cul de sac lots with a house in this 120 lot subdivision. Flat topography, Mediteranian weather pattern.
At first I thought that I could grow a fairly large garden of a variety of field crops as well as fruit trees.
the only crops that I had actually harvested was radishes, leaf letuce and cherry tomatoes. Anything else had marginal success to complete failure. So NOT worth growing. Then I found out that this whole subdivision was built on top of a former swamp land. The developer had braught in ruble rock, then toped it off with truckload upon a truckload to any dirt that he could find from commercial building sights... ie. clayee to hardpan , to rocky soils. So, I dug a dry creekbed from the very back corner to the front yard sidewalk neat the driveway for drainage and used that dirt to make hills 2-3 feet tall and enclosed them with 100-700 boulders. I then mixed in peat moss, sand, and composed. Worked well for 4 years, that is until this year. when I noticed that those hills bad become waterloged from 3 weeks of rainfall and plants there were turning yellow. They were DROWNING ! So, on the front hill I dug 8 French drains around it's perimiter, mixed in sand and compost, then replanted some of the Himalayan ferns, Mugho pines and corral bells. In the back yard, I dug another dry creek bed ( lined it with river rock up to 12" diameter and installed pond pebbles consisting of pea gravel to round rock up to 2" dia. along a large hill for additional drainage ( water flowed for 2 full days from the bottom of that hill's sides into the new dry creek bed, so working now ) . I will have to .do quite a bit more of additional diging for more drainage and planting ornamentals. Store purchased food it is , since conditions on this property are NOT condusive to produsing self sustainind food supply by any streatcth of imagination or wishful thinking. :caf
I grew up in Vancouver, WA. Our home never seemed to be in a “swampy” area (despite ponds and creeks at the back of our development) until we removed a couple huge old willows in the yard whose roots were causing plumbing troubles. Sure enough every year after that we had constant standing water in the lawn and gardens. I can’t fathom how much water those two trees must’ve been taking up to keep us dry. My dad eventually landscaped to address the issue- drainage ditches and huge mounds of dirt brought in to build banks for planting. All this to say, if you have room, consider a thirsty tree or two. 😉
 

bobm

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I grew up in Vancouver, WA. Our home never seemed to be in a “swampy” area (despite ponds and creeks at the back of our development) until we removed a couple huge old willows in the yard whose roots were causing plumbing troubles. Sure enough every year after that we had constant standing water in the lawn and gardens. I can’t fathom how much water those two trees must’ve been taking up to keep us dry. My dad eventually landscaped to address the issue- drainage ditches and huge mounds of dirt brought in to build banks for planting. All this to say, if you have room, consider a thirsty tree or two. 😉
I already have 17 Japanese Maple trees and 4 crab apple trees in my back yard. Last fall, the State had removed dozens of huge Cottonwood trees for a mile along the road behind our home. I am prety sure that this has contributed to the excess water.
 

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