Anybody with advice on vegetation killer?

[seedcorn]

@bobm curious, assume grass hay fields? No alfalfa? As long as grass is dormant, obviously works. Liberty would be another product that you might consider. It will kill any annual but perennials will re sprout.

We are getting same problem in fields in soybean fields as well as pastures. Especially if a dairy that feeds cotton seeds is near.

 

[bobm]

Our ranch is in a high desert type climate area of Cal. with annual rainfall of 6" to 9" per year from late Nov. to late Feb. . We may get a few sparce showers before or after those dates. Drout conditions for the last 6 years. The pastures consist mainly of foxtail and endophite free fescue, some native rangeland grasses and burr clover. No alfalfa as I do not have irrigation water available, so I buy about 100 tons of 2nd cutting best quality weed free alfalfa hay per year. I also overseed with winter wheat for a green pasture crop. All of these start to grow in Dec. at the start of the rains and lasts until the rains stop in early March, then go to seed and go dormant and/ or die off at the end of their life cycle. So anything that is green in the summer and autumn ( like most of the pasture areas are almost solid weeds [ One example : some years the star thistles are over waist high and so thick one has a hard time walking through the entire area]) are unwanted WEEDS and need to be killed, maimed and destroyed.

@bobm curious, assume grass hay fields? No alfalfa? As long as grass is dormant, obviously works. Liberty would be another product that you might consider. It will kill any annual but perennials will re sprout.

We are getting same problem in fields in soybean fields as well as pastures. Especially if a dairy that feeds cotton seeds is near.

 

[jasonvivier]

I found a picture! Here are three Delicata squash I grew with no sprays, fertilizer, water, or anything else in the middle of a field that was never mowed during the season. These plants produced 50 or so Delicata squash while I forgot they existed. I built a huglekulter bed out of whatever I could find and put three seeds in the bed. This plant is in the later part of the season.

What did I not do

1. I did not till
2. I did not weed (clearly) lol
3. I did not spray
4. I did not fertilize
5. I did not water
6. I did not experience any threatening pest damage

This is the environment I work with (at the research site)

So why would I try to do my thing, like a farmer? I have the benefits of diversity!

 

[bobm]

Please provide a few pertinent facts such as : Just how many acres did it take to produce the stated crop ? How many tons per acre did the above land produce of the Delicata squash as compared to the average yield for this type of stated crop by other commercial growers in the area ? How many people were fed from this crop yield per acre of land with how many meals ? How much money did this crop generate / yield to cover land, labor,plant seed, harvest and other expenses? Did the stated crop yield a profit over expenses for 3 out of 5 years ? If not, why not ?

 

[majorcatfish]

clearly there sport, in your last photo in the background thats a stream aka lowland over time that has turned into a meadow probably due to beaver dams along ago
not worth a farmers time because of flooding. also in the foreground to the right you can see clearly a drainage/creekbed and to the left all the tree saplings. that area once again is not worth a farmers time. but it would make a great view from the front deck of a house.......
a good farmer would pass on that land in a heartbeat, and a good home gardener would think twice about starting a garden there. it might make a good driveway to the house....
like i have posted before i grow like a mini farmer to feed my family and others trying to do year round.

think this horse is dead with this thread and the other one.........
wish you the best with your endeavors and your research site.. grow as you wish we always like seeing members growing from the ground up....

just speaking sorry if it's the brutal truth.

 

[Beekissed]

Though I don't find hugelkulter altogether practical for growing enough food or the diversity of foods one needs to feed a family, I do find it a noble pursuit to actually use one's head for ideas that involve not exploiting the earth for temporary gain and taking shortcuts to good, solid work by spraying everything with a poison or chemical fertilizer. It's totally lacking in imagination and consideration for others to do so, but many will persist in these actions because it's the path of least resistance and it's well trod by many, many others.

They seem to also persist in downgrading anyone who doesn't agree with or practice that kind of farming....that always makes me wonder why? What are they scared of? Does it threaten them in some way if someone doesn't want to travel that well trod path? It's not harming anyone or anything for people to try alternatives to raping the earth of minerals and nutrients, trying to replace those with substandard commercial fertilizers and then poisoning it along the way with herbicides and insecticides.

I applaud all natural, healthy ways of farming and raising livestock and I grow weary of those who disparage those who attempt it.

 

[TheSeedObsesser]

They seem to also persist in downgrading anyone who doesn't agree with or practice that kind of farming....that always makes me wonder why? What are they scared of?

What are they scared of?

Loss of profit. Less money coming into contact with their greedy, filthy hands. They might try to cover their own back-ends, but that's pretty much it. I've got Big-Ag in mind when I say this, not smaller folks who choose to use chemicals and whatever else.

 

[baymule]

I have a lot of downed trees on our new place. I fully intend to use my tractor to dig and build hugelculture beds. In my sandy soil, the underlying rotted wood will retain water and slowly break down, adding nutrients to the soil. No, the entire garden won't be hugelculture, but selected areas will be.

 

[seedcorn]

@TheSeedObsesser maybe this bloq would explain it?

https://www.aei.org/publication/the-omnivores-delusion-against-the-agri-intellectuals/print/

I can see where a hugel would be of advantage in water short areas. Would be nice for flowers or vining plants. Can't imagine trying to weed on top of a 6' tall one.

 

[jasonvivier]

Please provide a few pertinent facts such as : Just how many acres did it take to produce the stated crop ? How many tons per acre did the above land produce of the Delicata squash as compared to the average yield for this type of stated crop by other commercial growers in the area ? How many people were fed from this crop yield per acre of land with how many meals ? How much money did this crop generate / yield to cover land, labor,plant seed, harvest and other expenses? Did the stated crop yield a profit over expenses for 3 out of 5 years ? If not, why not ?

I fail to see what any of your questions have to do with my picture or comments. But I'l indulge you - That is a picture of three plants. Those three plants produced about 50 nice sized Delacata Squash with no material cost other than three seeds. As for the rest of the questions I'm not talking about being a farmer, I'm talking about being a gardener that doesn't need to garden like a farmer farms. Clearly I have showed that it isn't necessary to garden like a farmer and it is more a choice and nothing more. An expensive choice at that.

clearly there sport, in your last photo in the background thats a stream aka lowland over time that has turned into a meadow probably due to beaver dams along ago
not worth a farmers time because of flooding. also in the foreground to the right you can see clearly a drainage/creekbed and to the left all the tree saplings. that area once again is not worth a farmers time. but it would make a great view from the front deck of a house.......
a good farmer would pass on that land in a heartbeat, and a good home gardener would think twice about starting a garden there. it might make a good driveway to the house....
like i have posted before i grow like a mini farmer to feed my family and others trying to do year round.

think this horse is dead with this thread and the other one.........
wish you the best with your endeavors and your research site.. grow as you wish we always like seeing members growing from the ground up....

just speaking sorry if it's the brutal truth.

Well that's good for the farmer, I'm not talking about farming. As for the gardener, clearly those plants are healthy and productive - which is what a good gardener looks for, correct? And if you can get healthy productive plants, with no up front investment other than three seeds, doesn't it take a good gardener to turn that into a crop? I think so.

So why not say something like, "Wow it's pretty cool that you can grow a crop under those conditions - you must know what you're talking about!" The answer is because it goes against your beliefs, which doesn't make it wrong, it just means that it goes against your beliefs.

Though I don't find hugelkulter altogether practical for growing enough food or the diversity of foods one needs to feed a family, I do find it a noble pursuit to actually use one's head for ideas that involve not exploiting the earth for temporary gain and taking shortcuts to good, solid work by spraying everything with a poison or chemical fertilizer. It's totally lacking in imagination and consideration for others to do so, but many will persist in these actions because it's the path of least resistance and it's well trod by many, many others.

They seem to also persist in downgrading anyone who doesn't agree with or practice that kind of farming....that always makes me wonder why? What are they scared of? Does it threaten them in some way if someone doesn't want to travel that well trod path? It's not harming anyone or anything for people to try alternatives to raping the earth of minerals and nutrients, trying to replace those with substandard commercial fertilizers and then poisoning it along the way with herbicides and insecticides.

I applaud all natural, healthy ways of farming and raising livestock and I grow weary of those who disparage those who attempt it.

I can only disagree with your huglekulture statements. You can grow more diversity on them because they have more microclimates than a flat garden. Please see https://www.youtube.com/user/plantabundance for inspiration.

@TheSeedObsesser maybe this bloq would explain it?

https://www.aei.org/publication/the-omnivores-delusion-against-the-agri-intellectuals/print/

I can see where a hugel would be of advantage in water short areas. Would be nice for flowers or vining plants. Can't imagine trying to weed on top of a 6' tall one.

I just use heavy mulches, the occasional weed gets turned into compost tea or more mulch. lol