2022 Little Easy Bean Network - We Are Beans Without Borders

[flowerbug]

The problems in SSE seem to stem from a combination of decisions by upper management (the Board), database software changes, and a very high staff turnover. Even those who try to improve things seldom stay on long enough to see their visions through to completion. That has been a source of constant frustration for me, because I try to build a positive working relationship with someone on staff, only to see them leave after a year or two. I hope the seed historian stays on; given that variety history is part of SSE's core mission, that so much history has been lost, and that so many long-time members have left (or will soon), there is much that needs to be done.

The break between the old naming system & the new accession# system really needs to be addressed. As someone who has acquired & maintained many of SSE's own offerings, the broken link between old & new not only is a broken chain of custody, it allows the same variety - from the same source - to be double listed.

it all comes down to what files were saved from the previous versions and the new versions and if they can be made available.

i'm very familiar with doing odd things with computers and patching between systems or exporting and importing or building interfaces. it all comes down to getting the information to match up somehow.

if they moved the description intact and only changed the coding then it is quite possible to go back and rematch things up again comparing the text in the descriptions from each side, but you do need both sides of the conversion for that to work. otherwise once the old information is lost then someone else would have to go and do the manual matching all over again one item at a time. it's very likely that anyone hiring on won't ever have that kind of dedicated time unless someone outside said "We have these funds for this task and we want to be sure it is done so you need to hire [X] to do it." or ...

 

[flowerbug]

if SSE could open source their old database and the converted one then perhaps they could find enough volunteers to do the updates, but that's a whole different approach to this problem and i'm not sure anyone is really thinking much like that for a business or foundation.

like you say, it's hard to keep people for long at such places (grunt work is exactly that for many people).

i suppose you could always ask and see what they say. they may just say that they don't have the old files at all (likely) or don't know how to get them back (somewhat common happening), or don't even have the time to do that (heard it before), consider them proprietary and have no way to release them (100% is my bet) may get back to you later (good luck ).

 

[Zeedman]

Good idea, but I worry that someone will drop off the TEG strain part, and there you go, maybe call it Zeedman's Greenseed.

Unfortunately, you are probably right. It's hard to maintain any system of order, when humans are chaotic by nature. (Says someone who is dedicated to correcting errors... and yet catches himself making them fairly often.)

That some will change names, intentionally or as a typo, is a source of constant frustration. It introduces too much error & redundancy into the communal seed saving effort. It doesn't help that seed companies - who should know better - are often the source of these discrepancies. When I acquired Robert Lobitz's soybean data, I had to correct a lot of typos that had crept into SSE over the years. And as witnessed by my recent effort to correct the names of soybeans for which I was the source, seed companies - either through carelessness, or wanting to introduce something "new" - really muddy the waters. The process of catching & correcting errors as they appear is a never ending struggle.

To quote Dr. Kynes in Dune (one of my all-time favorite movies): "The process of removal continues."

 

[Jack Holloway]

And as witnessed by my recent effort to correct the names of soybeans for which I was the source, seed companies - either through carelessness, or wanting to introduce something "new" - really muddy the waters.

Oh, don't get me started on seed/nursery companies! Their latest thing is to take an old plant/seed, and give it a trademarked name, with no mention of the original name. Or claiming it is under patent, when the patent expired years ago or was never granted in the first place (which is actually against the law). Jung's is claiming a trademark on "Honeycrisp", you know, the apple. You can't trademark a varietal name of a plant. People have been trying to trademark Honeycrisp in apples for more than 20 years. And Ed Currie discovered the no trademarking of varietal names with Carolina Reaper pepper, which is why his trademark is for Smokin' Ed's Carolina Reaper and he had to disavow any claim to either Carolina and Reaper to get his trademark. Yes, I read the documents at the trademark/patent office.

 

[heirloomgal]

Oh, don't get me started on seed/nursery companies! Their latest thing is to take an old plant/seed, and give it a trademarked name, with no mention of the original name. Or claiming it is under patent, when the patent expired years ago or was never granted in the first place (which is actually against the law). Jung's is claiming a trademark on "Honeycrisp", you know, the apple. You can't trademark a varietal name of a plant. People have been trying to trademark Honeycrisp in apples for more than 20 years. And Ed Currie discovered the no trademarking of varietal names with Carolina Reaper pepper, which is why his trademark is for Smokin' Ed's Carolina Reaper and he had to disavow any claim to either Carolina and Reaper to get his trademark. Yes, I read the documents at the trademark/patent office.

IMO, When people, or any collective body, try to 'own' organisms or claim 'exclusive rights' to expressions within the framework of nature, or even control the 'management' of them, the outcome can only be truly frightful. Nature is the public domain.

 

[heirloomgal]

Been wanting to pose this question to the bean experts for a while, but kept forgetting! I'm in a moment of clarity so I'll go for it now....

So I sent some beans to @Branching Out this spring, they were 'Rio Zape's. I had grown these in 2021, and had a great grow out, productive and got every pod to dry down outdoors. When she grew them out though, she found some black beans in some of the pods. Growth habit was the same though. This was such a surprise to me, because I seldom if ever find crosses in my own home grown beans. The second reason for surprise was that there were no black seeded bean plants near those plants. I had semi-runners way over in another garden that were black though. But all 3 of my black semi-runners had quite matte black seed, and all the black seeds she collected from her plants were shiny.

I was pretty puzzled about what may have happened here, though I did learn from @Zeedman's Solwezi beans this year (3/4 of the seed turned out to be coloured like Cornfield beans when grown out) ---> he had his Solwezi's very far from his Cornfield beans - that bees clearly will travel big distances.

However, poking around I discovered there is a bean called Hopi Purple String which look exactly like Rio Zape. One description for HPS says that there are other colors in the Hopi variety, that it's a landrace type, and sometimes throws pure black seeds. Does anyone have any ideas if this may be what happened? That Rio Zape is also known as Hopi Purple String and there is some landrace situation going on? @Bluejay77 have you ever seen Rio Zape throw black beans?

 

[meadow]

@heirloomgal

This person talks about Rio Zape & Hopi Purple String (scroll way down for "Genetic Variation" for the meaty part of that discussion):

Bean Variety Trial 2013

 

[heirloomgal]

@heirloomgal

This person talks about Rio Zape & Hopi Purple String (scroll way down for "Genetic Variation" for the meaty part of that discussion):

Bean Variety Trial 2013

Oh @meadow!

You are my favoritest bean detective ever!!
Not only did you singlehandedly find the answer I was searching for but you discovered information I've been looking for for years on another bean!!! Tarahumara Purple Star!!!

Wow! Jackpot!

 

[meadow]

Were you able to grow Rio Zape easily at your place? I was thinking it would need to much heat to do well here. 🤔

 

[heirloomgal]

Were you able to grow Rio Zape easily at your place? I was thinking it would need to much heat to do well here. 🤔

It's interesting - I had a really easy time with it, though even @Bluejay77 mentioned I think this year that this was a late bean for him. The only thing I can come up with to explain that is my fervent devotion to transplants. lol Also, we did have a nice long fall.