A Seed Saver's Garden

[Pulsegleaner]

Have you tried transplants?

Yeah, year before last. The problem is that, in order to keep the animals from eating the seedlings, I have to keep them in the cold frame until ALL of the stored kernel is used up. By that point, the root system is so extensive that it has long since left the seedlings pots and interlaced with the ones next to them making separating them impossible. And even if it if didn't, corn HATES being transplanted (the root system never recovers) Some of the transplants survived, but none of them EVER grew any more once in the ground.

Basically, to be able to successfully transplant corn, I'd have to plant each kernel/hill in it's own ENORMOUS (about 18 inches in diameter, if not more) pot, and then move each pot into a corresponding hole. And since I basically need to plant 100 plants to make the patch work (you're really supposed to use at least 200 to keep diversity up, but I don't have the room for that). And there's no where I could store that many pots (or afford that many).

It's the same problem with just planting extra to out compete them. Just having a few plants survive isn't enough. They have to still be in a block, or, come tasseling time, all of the pollen just blows over the patch and down to the driveway (most of it does that anyway, since the patch is only 10x10 so it doesn't take much wind to go over the edge.) I've tried hand pollinating, but even in the freezer, the pollen doesn't seem to keep long enough to still work well when the tassels finally come out (by which time, the tassels have long since run out).

 

[heirloomgal]

Yeah, year before last. The problem is that, in order to keep the animals from eating the seedlings, I have to keep them in the cold frame until ALL of the stored kernel is used up. By that point, the root system is so extensive that it has long since left the seedlings pots and interlaced with the ones next to them making separating them impossible. And even if it if didn't, corn HATES being transplanted (the root system never recovers) Some of the transplants survived, but none of them EVER grew any more once in the ground.

Basically, to be able to successfully transplant corn, I'd have to plant each kernel/hill in it's own ENORMOUS (about 18 inches in diameter, if not more) pot, and then move each pot into a corresponding hole. And since I basically need to plant 100 plants to make the patch work (you're really supposed to use at least 200 to keep diversity up, but I don't have the room for that). And there's no where I could store that many pots (or afford that many).

It's the same problem with just planting extra to out compete them. Just having a few plants survive isn't enough. They have to still be in a block, or, come tasseling time, all of the pollen just blows over the patch and down to the driveway (most of it does that anyway, since the patch is only 10x10 so it doesn't take much wind to go over the edge.) I've tried hand pollinating, but even in the freezer, the pollen doesn't seem to keep long enough to still work well when the tassels finally come out (by which time, the tassels have long since run out).

Yeah, that sounds tricky. I see what you mean, I've seen chipmunks dig up sunflower starts to get the partial seed still there. I wonder if peat pots might be the best way to go, the slightly larger sized ones. Then there is no pulling plants apart and less transplant shock too. I'm not a fan of peat pots but this may be a case where they could be beneficial. But to have as many as you need would be costly. Might not be worth what it would cost.

Yes, I do my best to grow as many corn as I can to keep up the genetic diversity but I don't have endless space either and I need to economize it. I usually do 50 plants, maybe a bit more if I can manage. It is what it is. As far as I know, corn began as an isolated mutant anyway, and thus began with a small gene pool, so who knows what all is possible with it really. Of course, the more diversity in their genetics the better - at least in the case of a plague or serious widespread challenge of some sort - but let's face it, genetic diversity is still no guarantee. It stacks the odds to some degree, but life offers no certainty in anything.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Yeah, that sounds tricky. I see what you mean, I've seen chipmunks dig up sunflower starts to get the partial seed still there. I wonder if peat pots might be the best way to go, the slightly larger sized ones. Then there is no pulling plants apart and less transplant shock too. I'm not a fan of peat pots but this may be a case where they could be beneficial. But to have as many as you need would be costly. Might not be worth what it would cost.

Yes, I do my best to grow as many corn as I can to keep up the genetic diversity but I don't have endless space either and I need to economize it. I usually do 50 plants, maybe a bit more if I can manage. It is what it is. As far as I know, corn began as an isolated mutant anyway, and thus began with a small gene pool, so who knows what all is possible with it really. Of course, the more diversity in their genetics the better - at least in the case of a plague or serious widespread challenge of some sort - but let's face it, genetic diversity is still no guarantee. It stacks the odds to some degree, but life offers no certainty in anything.

I AM using peat pots. The roots grow through the side and into the pot next to them in the frame and the taproot grows through the bottom and get squashed.

And here, peat pellets are dirt cheap, I probably buy 3-400 per year.

Part of the real problem is that, since I winnowed the stuff down so severely and was so exacting in my specifications for selection, I don't really HAVE all that much of any of them. I only saved those kernels in the miniature dents that were ACTUALLY dented (even though I know that a dent kernel will only actually form a dent if pressure presses on it in the right direction as it grows, so, for example, the tip and butt kernels of a dent corn are often not dented) For the red ones that worked OK, but the bright purple magenta one only had about 30-40 kernels that met the standard) Same thing with the flour; when I did the light test, I only saved those kernels that were COMPLETELY opaque, if even a little light showed trough at any point, I discarded the kernel. Things like this speed up selection by making all examples as extreme versions of the desired trait as possible, but it DOES mean you are working with a very small pool (when I finally get to the miniature sweet corn, I'm going to have to be really careful, as I only have maybe forty kernels of that across ALL THREE samples).

And it's the same for most of the bigger kernel ones. The stippled ones now have ONLY the most stippled kernels. Same with the Andean corns (actually, by now all of the regular stippled Andead I accumulated is gone, I'm down to the few speckled Cuzco grains I managed to find, plus the chinmarked sweet corn and the "fletcha de pavo" kernels ( I don't know if it is genetic or a growth defect, but a few Andean corn kernels I have found have a sort of overlapping brown pattern that resembles turkey feathers, hence why I named it that (technically "pavo" mean peacock, but it is often used as slang for turkey in South America, the same as jaguars are often called "tigres")

 

[meadow]

@meadow I've found that peas can vary quite a bit in height depending on the soil they're grown in. I had quite a few peas this year that were supposed to grow 4-5 feet but definitely reached 6 feet or more. I think it's a legume thing actually, while the beans don't vary in height so much I do find that one variety can vary alot in how bushy they are one year and then not so much the next. I think it's a fertility thing, and also a delia platura thing. Delia platura can knock back a plant, never enough to kill it past the seed stage, but to reduce the yield you'll get from it. They affect peas that way too.

hmmm. That's interesting. Thanks!

 

[meadow]

Have you tried transplants?

Have you transplanted corn? I've been saving toilet paper cardboard for that purpose but haven't actually tried it yet. I've made a cut up the side so that there is an option to easily remove the cardboard when planting (like @Alasgun 's tomato pots).

 

[heirloomgal]

Have you transplanted corn? I've been saving toilet paper cardboard for that purpose but haven't actually tried it yet. I've made a cut up the side so that there is an option to easily remove the cardboard when planting (like @Alasgun 's tomato pots).

Yes, for quite a few years I've done transplants with corn. I do them about 4 weeks before planting. I've read that corn dislikes the root disturbance that comes with transplanting but I have had excellent results with transplants. Same for the beans.

 

[flowerbug]

Yes, for quite a few years I've done transplants with corn. I do them about 4 weeks before planting. I've read that corn dislikes the root disturbance that comes with transplanting but I have had excellent results with transplants. Same for the beans.

looks like timing is important...

 

[Zeedman]

I grew Zeedman's Mesa Pea last season and it is a short plant for him (12-18"?), but a normal pea-size for me (I think 3.5-4 feet tall). I remembered reading about your corn height vs Thistlebloom's and was speculating that Mesa Pea may grow taller in cool/dark conditions, which is what we had in the Spring. The Fall crop only grew 12-18" tall and had very low production as compared to the Spring crop.

My environment is less than ideal for cool-weather crops. Spring is often short & wet, and my heavy soil dries out slowly. Cool weather crops (including peas) should be planted here in early April, but the gardens typically don't dry out enough to cultivate until mid-May. I rarely plant before June 1st; and at that point, the beginning of Summer heat is only a week or two away. So while I can grow peas in my garden, they will seldom reach their full potential.

The depleted soil in my rural garden hasn't helped either. I've been blaming bad weather & weed pressure for poor performance... and that was certainly a factor (the garden was waterlogged all summer in 2021). But the MAJOR improvement I observed in varieties grown at home, compared to the same varieties grown in the rural garden, points to loss of fertility there (probably during the two years it flooded). Other than one year in a previous garden, "Mesa" had always been grown in the rural garden.

I'm adding a lot of organic material & wood ashes to the rural garden, and hope to see an improvement there. Unfortunately, I may only be gardening there for a few more years. The property owner (a long-time friend) has stated that when her 2 dogs die, she will be selling & moving into the city. At that point, if I still intend to have a large garden, I will need to locate another site. She has promised to give me at least one year's warning... but I'll already know by watching the dogs, which I've known since they were rescued.

 

[baymule]

I had to read this closely to realize you are talking about English peas, green ones. My definition of peas is Purple Hull peas, Black Eye peas, plus a host of diverse varieties, all Southern peas that love heat.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

looks like timing is important...

You bet it is! That's one of the reasons why transplanting corn is so hard, the time between when it germinates and when the taproot has grown so much it pokes out of the bottom of any small pot or peat plug is almost less than a day! Beans aren't that much longer. THAT'S one of my most fundamental problems, because of the unpredictable weather, plants in my garden have to often spend weeks in the cold frame, and most of them grow too fast for that. It was even worse when I didn't have a cold frame and had to keep everything inside until it was warm enough; by planting time, everything was stringy, etiolated and basically unable to support itself (I know most tomatoes eventually need staking but they should not need it as seedlings!)

I had to read this closely to realize you are talking about English peas, green ones. My definition of peas is Purple Hull peas, Black Eye peas, plus a host of diverse varieties, all Southern peas that love heat.

We've gone over this. If you are a Southerner "peas" mean Vigna ungiculata and Pisum sativum is "English peas". If you are a northerner, the latter are "peas" and the former are cowpeas. If you are in the Caribbean, "peas" means pigeon peas (Cajanus cajan).