A Seed Saver's Garden

[heirloomgal]

I found 2 new vegetables in the seed catalogues that look interesting. I have no experience with either of them. First one is 'Curly Peppergrass', Lepidium sativum. The second, 'Kintsai', Apium graveolens. I've grown cutting celery, or soup celery, which is related (it's actually overwintering out there right now), and I wonder if these 2 Apium's are actually more or less the same thing? If anyone has experience with these, I would love to hear.

 

[Branching Out]

Yasssss!! An Amazon editorial review:

You had me at carrot cake. One of the local libraries has a copy, so I plan to borrow this cookbook very soon.

 

[digitS']

I used to watch the Victory Garden regularly, although I didn't have a teevee when it first came on in the mid-70's. There are episodes available on YouTube. I'm not too sure how far they go back.

I remember thinking that once I had the teevee, I should have a VCR so that I could record Bill Alexander and then Bob Ross so that I could stop, rewind, figure out exactly what they were up to, and go on to become a 20th century Van Gogh ... never happened, even after i had a vcr ...

I have also grown leaf CELERY but Kitazawa and Wikipedia sure make it seem that Kintsai is just about the same. Didn't realize that I could grow celeriac until I gave that a try - in the 21st Century .

Steve
edited out lettuce for celery.

 

[Branching Out]

Peas! If you have any precious peas, I think this might be a way to start them off. I have a gardening book called the Victory Garden (which apparently was a show at one point in the US years ago though I can't find it anywhere online now) and he has those egg carton type peat pots in what look looks like sections of 12. He was in New England *I think, maybe it's rainy there? Peas would be one crop not likely to put up with being wicked dry, but if you have enough precipitation it looks like it works. But on the whole, I find that compressed peat is a force to be reckoned with! 🤣

eta: yup, a grass, so that explains it!

Our daughter gave me a 'paper pot' maker for Christmas last year, and to be honest I was a bit skeptical about using it at first. The instructions recommended using several layers of newspaper for rolling around the wooden form, but before long I discovered that using just a couple of smallish layers of phone book paper worked better for me. Given that I had gone full-Amish I had sourdough starter in the fridge, so I began using small dollops of that to 'glue' on the bottom and also the top edge of the paper pots so they didn't come undone when I stacked and stored them; sourdough is like concrete when it hardens, and makes a very good glue. Over the course of several months I must have made a couple thousand of these things, often while I sat watching T.V. in the evening. I liked that I could plant the paper pot right in the ground and that the paper would feed the soil (sometimes I would tear it off, or just tear off the bottom but not always). The paper also made it very clean and easy for sharing transplants, and there were no plastic pots to wash. I started lots of sunflowers, and most of my beans using the paper pots. But the biggest shock was when I was bumping up pepper seedlings and unwrapped one to see how remarkable the root development was.

 

[Zeedman]

Nice, @Branching Out .

I use the standard starter pot size, I think that's about 3 or 4 inches, right? I don't use peat pots generally, I haven't liked my results when I tried them with watermelons, and a few other things, years ago. I find it takes the root systems of plants too long to escape the pots! It seems to slow them down as a result. Also, I haven't liked the wicking effect of even a teeny bit of a peat pot inadvertently exposed. I would even tear off the outer edge before planting, but one way or another the wicking would start with a hard stream of water knocking soil out from around the transplant. I go with the (mostly) re-usable plastic pots for the corn.

Yeah, I tear off the bottom of peat pots before planting, if not some around the edges too (when possible) to reduce the thickness. I bought a bunch of them (smallish square ones) on sale and now I don't know what to grow in them. They are too small, imo, for squash. I think they'd be too short for corn, but idk.

I understand some of the criticism of peat pots, re: root penetration & wicking. When I first started using them, I had a few problems with both (lost a few peas & squash due to wicking). But sometimes a problem turns out to be just a hurdle to be overcome, rather than a wall.

These are Jiffy 32's, which I use for all cucurbits and most beans & peas. If I clean out the drainage hole (which is often obstructed) and add extra holes in the bottom & sides using an ice pick, I have no problems with root penetration. And if I add a thin later of sand in the tray under the pots, it acts as a reservoir to maintain moisture in the pots. That sand also allows the emerging roots to grow without being air pruned; those extra roots - if handled carefully at time of transplant & not allowed to dry out - allow the transplants to "take" very quickly.

These are the Jiffy 32's (which I use for most beans) before & after. Note all of the plugged drain holes. I use the smaller Jiffy 50's to start okra & all Vigna beans & cowpeas, and 3" pots for the largest limas & runner beans. All of those get "ventilated" the same way. It takes maybe 2-3 hours to process all of the pots that I need for the year, while listening to music.

As others do, I tear off any excess pot above the soil line at the time of transplant, to reduce wicking. Two other tips:
- Packing the soil tightly into the pots (a glass spice bottle works nicely for that) will reduce the likelihood of the pot separating from the soil (and the root ball).
- Having a layer of sand in the tray, and nestling the pots into it, also helps to reduce the chances of mold or algae. The mold issue could perhaps be overcome by using a fungicide in the first soak (which might be helpful for paper pots & soil blocks as well) but as an organic gardener, I prefer other options.
***EDIT: Please note that the use of sand adds weight to the tray, so they must be handled carefully to avoid collapse during movement. I have several plexiglass & plywood panels that I use for moving the heavier trays.

IMO mold & algae are the biggest drawbacks of peat pots. Because of this, they are poorly suited to anything which will be spending more than 2-4 weeks in the pot, such as tomatoes, peppers, onions, or slow-growing herbs. Those plants also tend to have less sensitive root systems, and do quite well in re-usable plastic containers.

I am very interested in hearing from gardeners who use paper pots or soil blocks, regarding their pros & cons. But personally, I have a lifetime supply of both peat & plastic, and have an "if it ain't broke..." philosophy.

Oh, and friends don't let friends use peat pellets! I wouldn't recommend those to my worst enemy (unless they really deserved it).

 

[baymule]

My dear husband and I went to Lowe’s one hot summer day. The dumpster was over flowing with tossed out dead plants, still in the plastic pots, from 3” square to the bigger round ones. After getting permission to go dumpster diving, we dug in. We dumped out the soil, stacked the pots, even had trays to put them in! Sweat rolling, that poor man was a good sport to put up with my brand of crazy. Had so many, I gave some away, used some to pieces and still have some of them.

 

[heirloomgal]

Our daughter gave me a 'paper pot' maker for Christmas last year, and to be honest I was a bit skeptical about using it at first. The instructions recommended using several layers of newspaper for rolling around the wooden form, but before long I discovered that using just a couple of smallish layers of phone book paper worked better for me. Given that I had gone full-Amish I had sourdough starter in the fridge, so I began using small dollops of that to 'glue' on the bottom and also the top edge of the paper pots so they didn't come undone when I stacked and stored them; sourdough is like concrete when it hardens, and makes a very good glue. Over the course of several months I must have made a couple thousand of these things, often while I sat watching T.V. in the evening. I liked that I could plant the paper pot right in the ground and that the paper would feed the soil (sometimes I would tear it off, or just tear off the bottom but not always). The paper also made it very clean and easy for sharing transplants, and there were no plastic pots to wash. I started lots of sunflowers, and most of my beans using the paper pots. But the biggest shock was when I was bumping up pepper seedlings and unwrapped one to see how remarkable the root development was.

That is pretty neat @Branching Out. I saw that Richter's was selling a wooden thingamajigee for making paper pots at some point and wondered if it would really work. Looking at your homemade paper pots, I now believe it. It cetainly worked for those happy pepper plants.

Washing plastic pots - ugh. The ultimate drawback. I barely do it anymore.

 

[heirloomgal]

Nice, @Branching Out .



I understand some of the criticism of peat pots, re: root penetration & wicking. When I first started using them, I had a few problems with both (lost a few peas & squash due to wicking). But sometimes a problem turns out to be just a hurdle to be overcome, rather than a wall.

These are Jiffy 32's, which I use for all cucurbits and most beans & peas. If I clean out the drainage hole (which is often obstructed) and add extra holes in the bottom & sides using an ice pick, I have no problems with root penetration. And if I add a thin later of sand in the tray under the pots, it acts as a reservoir to maintain moisture in the pots. That sand also allows the emerging roots to grow without being air pruned; those extra roots - if handled carefully at time of transplant & not allowed to dry out - allow the transplants to "take" very quickly.
View attachment 53968 View attachment 53969
These are the Jiffy 32's (which I use for most beans) before & after. Note all of the plugged drain holes. I use the smaller Jiffy 50's to start okra & all Vigna beans & cowpeas, and 3" pots for the largest limas & runner beans. All of those get "ventilated" the same way. It takes maybe 2-3 hours to process all of the pots that I need for the year, while listening to music.

As others do, I tear off any excess pot above the soil line at the time of transplant, to reduce wicking. Two other tips:
- Packing the soil tightly into the pots (a glass spice bottle works nicely for that) will reduce the likelihood of the pot separating from the soil (and the root ball).
- Having a layer of sand in the tray, and nestling the pots into it, also helps to reduce the chances of mold or algae. The mold issue could perhaps be overcome by using a fungicide in the first soak (which might be helpful for paper pots & soil blocks as well) but as an organic gardener, I prefer other options.

IMO mold & algae are the biggest drawbacks of peat pots. Because of this, they are poorly suited to anything which will be spending more than 2-4 weeks in the pot, such as tomatoes, peppers, onions, or slow-growing herbs. Those plants also tend to have less sensitive root systems, and do quite well in re-usable plastic containers.

I am very interested in hearing from gardeners who use paper pots or soil blocks, regarding their pros & cons. But personally, I have a lifetime supply of both peat & plastic, and have an "if it ain't broke..." philosophy.

Oh, and friends don't let friends use peat pellets!. I wouldn't recommend those to my worst enemy (unless they really deserved it).

Oh my goodness @Zeedman you are too funny. I can't believe the comedy that abounds on TEG! Between you and jbosmith and ducks I can't help but laugh out loud sometimes. There must be some statistical coorelation between humor and gardening because so many of the gardening books on my shelf are also written by incredibly funny people.

I've seen those peat pellet thingees around, and always wondered what one might use those for! I'm sort of glad now I that I never took the bait. Personally, if I have to do transplants of something it's never going to be in a pot for less than 4 weeks so the pot has to be something substantial enough to take that kind of growth as well as not rot. I used to use popsicle sticks in my eternal search for plant tags that are cheap and ubiquitious, and quickly realized - they can rot! And take your plant with them! Thus began my hesitation to use 'natural' materials with transplants.

Soil blocks are something I've always been curious about. The cost seems prohibitive though, as well as the need for a particular kind of commerical mix to create the formula needed.

 

[Branching Out]

Oh my goodness @Zeedman you are too funny. I can't believe the comedy that abounds on TEG! Between you and jbosmith and ducks I can't help but laugh out loud sometimes. There must be some statistical coorelation between humor and gardening because so many of the gardening books on my shelf are also written by incredibly funny people.

I've seen those peat pellet thingees around, and always wondered what one might use those for! I'm sort of glad now I that I never took the bait. Personally, if I have to do transplants of something it's never going to be in a pot for less than 4 weeks so the pot has to be something substantial enough to take that kind of growth as well as not rot. I used to use popsicle sticks in my eternal search for plant tags that are cheap and ubiquitious, and quickly realized - they can rot! And take your plant with them! Thus began my hesitation to use 'natural' materials with transplants.

Soil blocks are something I've always been curious about. The cost seems prohibitive though, as well as the need for a particular kind of commerical mix to create the formula needed.

That is pretty neat @Branching Out. I saw that Richter's was selling a wooden thingamajigee for making paper pots at some point and wondered if it would really work. Looking at your homemade paper pots, I now believe it. It cetainly worked for those happy pepper plants.

Washing plastic pots - ugh. The ultimate drawback. I barely do it anymore.

I soon realized that a large empty spice bottle that has a concave bottom works just as well, if not better, than the official (and expensive) Paper Pot Maker.

 

[Branching Out]

Oh my goodness @Zeedman you are too funny. I can't believe the comedy that abounds on TEG! Between you and jbosmith and ducks I can't help but laugh out loud sometimes. There must be some statistical coorelation between humor and gardening because so many of the gardening books on my shelf are also written by incredibly funny people.

I've seen those peat pellet thingees around, and always wondered what one might use those for! I'm sort of glad now I that I never took the bait. Personally, if I have to do transplants of something it's never going to be in a pot for less than 4 weeks so the pot has to be something substantial enough to take that kind of growth as well as not rot. I used to use popsicle sticks in my eternal search for plant tags that are cheap and ubiquitious, and quickly realized - they can rot! And take your plant with them! Thus began my hesitation to use 'natural' materials with transplants.

Soil blocks are something I've always been curious about. The cost seems prohibitive though, as well as the need for a particular kind of commerical mix to create the formula needed.

Being inherently frugal I came up with a DIY soil blocking technique. For blocking mix I just used regular Pro Mix potting soil with a little bit of kelp, green sand and rock phosphate mixed in. I make my blocks one at a time, using the lid from a bottle of sunscreen spray as the form. An ice pick was used to poke a hole in the lid, and then I would put a coin in the bottom and pack it firmly with very moist potting soil mix. To get the block out I would invert it on my tray and use a skewer to poke through the little hole and push down on the coin, to release the block. After doing a few it was quite easy, and they worked very well for small seeds like lettuce. Note that it is important to have a tray with low edges, so that you can bottom water the blocks while maintaining excellent air circulation or else they mold. I also found a light dusting of fine vermiculite on the tops of the blocks helped to reduce algae growth. And just this week I finally purchased the small soil blocker that is made in England; haven't tried it out yet but I am very curious to try it out!