A Seed Saver's Garden

Pulsegleaner said:
Ah, but doing that is part of their plan. If they can effectively sue anyone who get their genes in their crops, even by accident, they can get to a point where growing versions of those crops that are NOT theirs becomes legally impossible. Then, they have a monopoly on the market.
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Heaven help us!!!
 
Zeedman said:
Dunno about that; I've been growing Green Sausage since 2005, and SSE had it well before that.
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I'm just repeating what Tom said. Considering that, for quite a while, nearly ALL new green when ripe tomatoes were coming from him, it does sound semi-credible. And I never said he said it RECENTLY, I've BEEN on forums like this since 2005 or even earlier, so it could have be new news when I heard it.

flowerbug said:
they do! or they try... note, i generally don't let them at all so they get over it.
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Particularly the pressure they put on you to give them grandkids. While I can see not wanting their line to end with you, you basically end up going from not being able to do what you want because you're too young, to not being able to do what you want because your job keeps you from having the time, to not doing what you want because you now have to spend money taking care of the needs of YOUR kids, to not being able to do what you want because you need to leave as much money as possible to your kids (there are plenty of kids who will start calculating their inheritance long before they will receive it, and consider anything you spend on yourself stealing from them.) , to not being able to do what you want because you're now too old to physically accomplish it.

It's sort of the problem I always had with the Puritan work ethic. Working hard to earn as much money as possible is fine, but if YOU work your entire life without using it, and so does every one of your descendants, what's the point? Either you'll just have a ton of money sitting in the bank growing forever being used for nothing, or someone will eventually die without heirs and intestate and the government will get it all anyway (I'm cynical enough to believe we are not too far away from the day the government starts secretly sending out hitmen to bump off very rich heirs before they get a family or a will so they can get their estates. The chunk they get in taxes is nice, but I'm sure many would much rather always get the whole thing.)
 
heirloomgal said:
Don't apologize Jack! Hey, I'm all about the free exchange and expression of ideas. I've read my fair share of Plato on dialogue. :lol:

As much as KS's gesture with wanting to keep the seed 'free' is a well intended one no doubt, I still think it's problematic. It's actually a challenge to people's essential freedom, to my mind. If someone wants to grow one of his peppers, and wants to sell some of the seed they grow themselves, I don't think they should be prevented from doing that. It's like any product sold; if a car is sold to someone, they shouldn't be told they can only drive it during the day, or according to the seller's preference. When you sell something, or even give it away, you have to let it go. The nature of the giving or the selling relinquishes ownership in my thinking.
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if there is a license with a product you have the choice to not buy the product. if something is a gift i consider that no license at all. if you are sold something that had a license but are not told that then that is a problem with that seller. if there are terms that go along with a gift you have the right to not accept the gift.

what the parents have done is give you the gift of life, some are more insistant than others about the various gifts, licenses, desires, etc. they may try to wrangle on your head. my joke aside i do have one pretty wise parent (she's my heir for now (so perhaps i could say she's in my heir all the time?) after all :) ) my other parent is more difficult and we don't talk or see each other often but we at least still do talk.

but back to the topic, as to whether or not a particular license is enforceable it would be a matter for the courts to decide.

and then there is practical enough, if every alfalfa plant has to be genetically tested that's not practical at all. the wild stuff along the road or what is in the back yard, some was planted and some just grew there. fire the bees! nope, i don't see that happening either.
 
Pulsegleaner said:
...
It's sort of the problem I always had with the Puritan work ethic. Working hard to earn as much money as possible is fine, but if YOU work your entire life without using it, and so does every one of your descendants, what's the point? Either you'll just have a ton of money sitting in the bank growing forever being used for nothing, or someone will eventually die without heirs and intestate and the government will get it all anyway (I'm cynical enough to believe we are not too far away from the day the government starts secretly sending out hitmen to bump off very rich heirs before they get a family or a will so they can get their estates. The chunk they get in taxes is nice, but I'm sure many would much rather always get the whole thing.)
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i'm not sure how far they have to search before it can be confiscated but i think the current limit of estate taxes kick in only when you have 12 million or more. i'm a long ways from that...

now what you can do is set up a trust and find trustees who will do mostly what you want with it. if you want to try to do something like that. for me it would be to help improve the world in some manner as much as possible and if there's nobody who wants to do that then donate it to some nature or ocean improvement kind of foundation. that's about all i can do until i find someone who might want whatever is left when i'm gone. buy someone something nice like free electricity for a year, help them grow food somehow, invest in learning about how to survive in space, grow food in space, etc. i have a million ideas. :)

beans in space, the new adventure, we're talking seed coats here... space suits for beans?

reminds me of some ancient books by Piers Anthony...
 
when i send someone seed i hope they will pass it along for the same purposes and intent that i gave it, but there might be someone who will take that and turn it into a mass produced item, well they can do that too, but i'd hope that if they made a bundle of money off it they'd be kind and send some back. :) yeah, i know... won't happen and i'm ok with that too because in the end many of us are now using many things each day that help us out in various ways and we don't often think about who invented them or how they came to us nor do we often think about how nice it is that we have this luxury or knowledge and appreciate it.

i like to give credit when i can, but i also know that like patents and copyrights eventually it becomes "public domain".
 
heirloomgal said:
Don't apologize Jack! Hey, I'm all about the free exchange and expression of ideas. I've read my fair share of Plato on dialogue. :lol:



But I'm twitchy about all this stuff because we have a lunatic at the helm here who keeps telling us that one day 'we'll own nothing but be happy'! 🤪
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Well said. there is also the element of HOW the seeds are saved. We gravitate to seed companies that dry/save their seeds for greater viability.
Seed processing for sale doesn't work into any possible patent.
Good discussion!
 
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