Catalogs, 2022

[Zeedman]

On the luffa thing: that's sort of what I am hoping as well; that I can de-hybridize the apple luffa and get an OP that retains the short, fat fruit shape (you'd think that there would have to already BE one to make the cross in the first place, but if there is, I have never seen it.)

Are you sure that "apple" gourd is a luffa, and not a bottle gourd (Lagenaria siceraria)? There is an 'apple' type on the AG2T website, in the bottle gourd section.

Which other one is bi-color?

Summer Treasure, which is reddish-brown & white. That is a color scheme I seek, since I have 4 of such varieties (3 from the Philippines) and they are all very good. I'm holding my breath on the white-seeded one, since I tried one of those before that proved to be short-day only... lots of leaves, and only a few flowers just before frost. That was one of only 3 short-day yardlongs I've trialed thus far; fortunately most varieties seem to be day-neutral, regardless of their tropical origin.

Did you read the "about?" Florida company distributing imported seeds.

(Do you suppose they accept PayPal?)

The importing part initially concerned me as well, since there are a lot of horror stories on the web about Chinese seeds being shipped illegally... so I sent them an email asking for clarification. They responded that they import seed via legal means through APHIS, and repackage it for U.S. sale. All of which was clearly posted on their website (which I had just glanced over - ooops ). They make a great effort (justifiably IMO) to distance themselves from all of the Chinese seed being imported by mail under fraudulent means.

So it appears the seeds they are importing are the products of modern Chinese breeding, which IMO opens up a whole new world (almost literally) to those of us who grow Chinese vegetables. I hope this company sticks around, introduces us to more new varieties, and that at least some of those varieties prove to be adapted to places in higher latitudes than Florida. Time will tell.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Are you sure that "apple" gourd is a luffa, and not a bottle gourd (Lagenaria siceraria)? There is an 'apple' type on the AG2T website, in the bottle gourd section.

Quite sure. The luffa I'm referring to isn't ON the A2G2 site; I found it on Etsy.

Summer Treasure, which is reddish-brown & white. That is a color scheme I seek, since I have 4 of such varieties (3 from the Philippines) and they are all very good. I'm holding my breath on the white-seeded one, since I tried one of those before that proved to be short-day only... lots of leaves, and only a few flowers just before frost. That was one of only 3 short-day yardlongs I've trialed thus far; fortunately most varieties seem to be day-neutral, regardless of their tropical origin.

If I ever DO find those two yard longs again, you'll probably want one of them as well, since it is also a bicolor. The pods were a fairly fat and pale greenish white, possibly with red markings (the things were usually so beaten up when I got them off the discount vegetable stand I would get them at I couldn't tell what was markings and what was bruising. I DID try once going INSIDE the store that the stand was outside of (to see if there were fresher ones) but either I couldn't find them or the store and the stand were unaffiliated.

Actually, the other one was technically bicolor as well (if you consider black eyed as being bicolored). That I found ONCE at a stand on the very edge of Chinatown, possibly outside of it (I'd have to check a NYC map to tell if the corner of Essex and Rutgers is still considered part of Chinatown, or even "Extended Chinatown".* HUGE pods with very rugose (wrinkly) surfaces.

*As time has passed in Manhattan, the Chinese population has moved down (sorry, East, I have this spatial problem where I think of Manhattan as being turned 90 degrees from what it actually is). So when I say I am "In Chinatown" I'm often actually in the Lower East Side, in the "Newer Zone". But this place was on the edge of even THAT, in front of what I think is the most easterly of all Chinese restaurants in the area (Wing Shoon then, Wu's Wonton King now, I think).

 

[Zeedman]

BTW, I just realized they are offering wing bean seeds as well! It's just that they are sort of hidden. They're the very bottom link in the list of products (the one that has no English as part of it.) There's a review of them as well, but it's in Chinese.

So you sleuthed that out as well. I was just discussing this a few days ago with someone on another forum (this was the person that first referred me to the AG2T website). They were interested in growing their winged beans (as was I, after watching their videos). The poster had commented about winged beans suddenly disappearing on the AG2T website; I found them much as you did, listed in Chinese only. When I pointed this out, the poster contacted AG2T... they responded that they had received too many negative reviews about their winged beans from Northern growers, so had pulled down their English catalog listing. (No explanation as to why they were still listed in Chinese).

To be honest, because even day-neutrality does not necessarily equal short DTM, I expect that some of their other fruiting vegetables will prove to be poorly adapted to points North of Florida (especially some of the gourds). I hope that assumption proves to be unwarranted, but they do recommend against trying the angled luffa in Northern latitudes. Varieties grown in Northern China should be adapted to our latitudes though, so I'm counting on finding at least a few "keepers". Their seed prices are reasonable enough that I could realistically consider doing mass trials of everything in certain categories.

 

[Zeedman]

Quite sure. The luffa I'm referring to isn't ON the A2G2 site; I found it on Etsy.

An impressive display, if the photo was taken by someone in a short-season area. I'll be looking forward to comparing results this year, since luffa is a new crop for me.

And on the topic of day-neutrality not necessarily equaling short DTM, I won't be trying Baker Creek's "snake bean" climbing gourd either, having read quite a few negative reviews from those with shorter seasons. The 20' vines would be a deal breaker regardless, since I don't have a spare tree to kill.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

An impressive display, if the photo was taken by someone in a short-season area. I'll be looking forward to comparing results this year, since luffa is a new crop for me.

The seller is in Virginia. You can infer from that (assuming she actually GROWS all the seeds she sells)

And on the topic of day-neutrality not necessarily equaling short DTM, I won't be trying Baker Creek's "snake bean" climbing gourd either, having read quite a few negative reviews from those with shorter seasons. The 20' vines would be a deal breaker regardless, since I don't have a spare tree to kill.

Only 20'? For me to get the lard pumpkins I ordered working, I'm going to have to work out how to fit a 30' vine indoors ! No, correct that, I have to figure out how to fit six such vines in ! (lard pumpkin is dioecious, so the best change of getting fruit is to plant ALL the seeds I get and hope.)

 

[Zeedman]

Only 20'? For me to get the lard pumpkins I ordered working, I'm going to have to work out how to fit a 30' vine indoors ! No, correct that, I have to figure out how to fit six such vines in ! (lard pumpkin is dioecious, so the best change of getting fruit is to plant ALL the seeds I get and hope.)

Wow, that must take a lot of lights, not to mention getting through all of that for hand pollination. You might want to bring in a nuc hive.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Wow, that must take a lot of lights, not to mention getting through all of that for hand pollination. You might want to bring in a nuc hive.

Oh God, I didn't even THINK of the pollination! I'm probably going to need a ladder on top of everything.
And I forgot to mention it could take up to THREE years for the flowers to show up.
I suppose the only GOOD thing is that, In theory, once the flowers DO show up, I might be able to get rid of a few of them (I really only need ONE male, though there might be advantages to keeping them all in the name of diversity.)

https://www.etsy.com/listing/111894...694&click_sum=585aba0f&ref=user_profile&cns=1

 

[Zeedman]

OK @Pulsegleaner you got me curious, so I did some digging for Hodsonia macrocarpa... and Wow! Did you say 30'? No, it can grow to 30 meters! That's not a plant, it's an obnoxious roommate! The photos of engulfed trees remind me of kudzu, so I hope you have a second floor - or an escape plan.

An interesting plant though, and one more to add to my "wish it grew here" list.... along with its cousins Gac, chayote squash, and Malabar gourd.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

OK @Pulsegleaner you got me curious, so I did some digging for Hodsonia macrocarpa... and Wow! Did you say 30'? No, it can grow to 30 meters! That's not a plant, it's an obnoxious roommate! The photos of engulfed trees remind me of kudzu, so I hope you have a second floor - or an escape plan.
View attachment 47087

An interesting plant though, and one more to add to my "wish it grew here" list.... along with its cousins Gac, chayote squash, and Malabar gourd.

Oh Damn, forgot to convert (I'm not used to everything being in metric). Maybe this is one I should put in the freezer until I can make a deal with someone like the New York Botanical Garden, who actually HAVE greenhouses big enough.

One more for you wish list THIS one is supposed to taste like ripe bananas.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/101274...how_sold_out_detail=1&ref=nla_listing_details

And look into Oyster Nut (Teliferia pedata) That's another big 30 meter Tropical Cucurbit vine with big edible seeds. As is its cousin, the fluted pupkin (Telifera occidentalis).

As for Gac, you can always simply let some of your bitter melons get overripe and then eat the red stuff from them. It does more or less the same thing (they are cousins, after all). Who knows, maybe you can cross them and make a cold tolerant version (it's no more farfetched than my college plan of crossing Diospyros khaki with D. ebenum and creating a North American Ebony empire,* and only marginally dumber than my current plan of mixing Juglans Hindsii and J. mandishurica to create a cold tolerant, smooth shelled walnut for the people who actually LIKE the taste of black walnuts enough to want to eat them (I've tasted Hind's and as far as I can tell, it tastes more or less like a black. And the Chinese eat Manchurian walnuts all the time (when they aren't rolling them around in their hands, or paying tens of thousands of dollars for perfectly matched pairs.)**

* That plan never got off the ground, since, back then, I had no access to ebony seeds and no idea how to get them. I do now.

**This one might actually work, given how readily walnuts cross breed (Manchurians cross with Persian walnuts so often that natural hybrids are COMMON in the Chinese commercial nut market, and Hind's crosses so easily with the California walnut that's it's actually in danger of breeding itself out of existence as a pure species! (I think there's like ONE natural pure grove left in the US). Plus Luther Burbank already crossed Hinds with Persian (which is sometimes also used as a Persian rootstock) to create the Paradox walnut.

The main problems here are lack of space (walnut trees are big) lack of skill at grafting (which would speed up the process a LOT AND cut down on space) and probably lack of time (it would probably end up being a 30-40 year project, or longer.)

 

[Zeedman]

Who knows, maybe you can cross them and make a cold tolerant version (it's no more farfetched than my college plan of crossing Diospyros khaki with D. ebenum and creating a North American Ebony empire,

Oh, the ambitious dreams we have in our youth - before we encounter the hard wall of reality.

There are countless interesting tropical cucurbits. I wish I had known of them when I lived in San Diego, had both a hospitable climate & virtually unlimited space, and could have grown a few. I did grow a lot of chayote squash, and more than anything else I grew in California, I really wish I could grow them here. I'm almost desperate enough to build a heated high tunnel just for that purpose.