One thing people don't usually know.

flowerbug

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even the harshest places can support life.

the following site was set up by a permaculture guy for a farm, they used the backpressure waste water from wells at first but eventually abandoned the area, but some of the plants they put into place and got established are still there and alive.


every once in a while i check it out on the map to see if they've updated their satelite pictures but also just to see how it changes. always find it interesting and it gives me some small amount of hope because it shows that even in the harshest and driest areas you can make a difference if you really want to do it.

as a post script the guy also designed this site too but it looks to me like the original design there has been somewhat changed and perhaps abandoned too. still interesting after many years:

 

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So, just off the Gulf of Aqaba in Jordan ...

I have had mixed feelings about permaculture.

We once had a gardener on TEG with a strong feeling towards the practice. One might even say arrogant ;). Someone would comment on their bountiful or long season of harvest and he was like, "if you think that amounts to something ..." Then, he would comment on a perennial. I remember having to restrain myself and not say, "but, I don't like to eat that!"

Much of my resistance to permaculture has to do with that GOOPP gardening mentioned in my post in the "what did you do" thread. When it is not my property, and I don't have much room at home, I don't feel it's possible to grow most perennials. So, it's limitations, experience, and food preferences. BTW, there are some real nice new apple varieties in our markets :).

Steve
 

R2elk

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So, just off the Gulf of Aqaba in Jordan ...

I have had mixed feelings about permaculture.

We once had a gardener on TEG with a strong feeling towards the practice. One might even say arrogant ;). Someone would comment on their bountiful or long season of harvest and he was like, "if you think that amounts to something ..." Then, he would comment on a perennial. I remember having to restrain myself and not say, "but, I don't like to eat that!"

Much of my resistance to permaculture has to do with that GOOPP gardening mentioned in my post in the "what did you do" thread. When it is not my property, and I don't have much room at home, I don't feel it's possible to grow most perennials. So, it's limitations, experience, and food preferences. BTW, there are some real nice new apple varieties in our markets :).

Steve
There are lots and lots of plants that are perennials elsewhere but can only survive as annuals here.
 

flowerbug

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So, just off the Gulf of Aqaba in Jordan ...

a pretty hard looking place to eek out a living.


I have had mixed feelings about permaculture.

i have mixed feelings about some of the people who practice it, but the techniques are well worth studying if you have the time. use what you can and leave the rest.


We once had a gardener on TEG with a strong feeling towards the practice. One might even say arrogant ;). Someone would comment on their bountiful or long season of harvest and he was like, "if you think that amounts to something ..." Then, he would comment on a perennial. I remember having to restrain myself and not say, "but, I don't like to eat that!"

haha! yes, perennial cropping can be a part of it but also annuals or the other traditional garden vegetables. so many people think that they have to do food forests but for me here i haven't done that but i have used various other techniques as i've been able to do them and they have helped.


Much of my resistance to permaculture has to do with that GOOPP gardening mentioned in my post in the "what did you do" thread. When it is not my property, and I don't have much room at home, I don't feel it's possible to grow most perennials. So, it's limitations, experience, and food preferences. BTW, there are some real nice new apple varieties in our markets :).

there wasn't a very good selection of apples this year in our area that we saw but i can't say i've looked much either. i'm not an out and about type of person so just a few shops we used for apples and i didn't like many of them but that too can be Mom as she won't get any tart apples.
 

flowerbug

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the other place that this same permaculture guy did build and it continues to teach and be used so it is kept up:


i'm not sure how much of that is their site or the neighbors who've gotten the ideas and put them into practice, but if you look uphill or around to that barren land that is how it used to look when they first started out.

the bit of green in the left lower part was not there to start with when the rest got going, it came along later.
 
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Zeedman

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I have to admit, when I read the title of this thread
"One thing people don't usually know"
My first thought was... there's only one??? ;)
the other place that this same permaculture guy did build and it continues to teach and be used so it is kept up:


i'm not sure how much of that is their site or the neighbors who've gotten the ideas and put them into practice, but if you look uphill or around to that barren land that is how it used to look when they first started out.

the bit of green in the left lower part was not there to start with when the rest got going, it came along later.
If you zoom out, this site is on the edge of an agricultural area - so apparently irrigated. A very hostile environment to grow anything nonetheless. I wonder if what is being grown is edible, or just land reclamation?

Permaculture is interesting, but: not really suitable as a sole solution for sustenance; not practical for all locations; and as @digitS' pointed out, not worth the time & effort if the land on which you live or garden is not your own. It also requires a long view, in terms of results vs. time.

If you own property though, I believe most gardeners already do some permaculture... rhubarb, asparagus, berries of several types, fruit trees & vines, etc, not to mention wind breaks. There are few perennial equivalents to most of our annual vegetables though, and most of those are inferior. For those of us in temperate climates, our efforts are better directed toward food storage.

Permaculture is not a new concept. Our ancestors practiced more permaculture than we do, perhaps because land ownership was more common then (even for poor families) and families tended to stay in one place. Leaving behind something which took years to develop (such as an orchard or grape vines) made more sense then, than it would for our more loose-knit families & mobile culture now. What we really need is more perma-families. :)
 

flowerbug

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I have to admit, when I read the title of this thread
"One thing people don't usually know"
My first thought was... there's only one??? ;)

permaculture is a very big topic...

i suppose "Satelite pics of abandoned permaculture site in a desert" could have been used instead. :) sometimes i really don't know what to title a thread and use whatever first comes to mind.


If you zoom out, this site is on the edge of an agricultural area - so apparently irrigated. A very hostile environment to grow anything nonetheless. I wonder if what is being grown is edible, or just land reclamation?

those are crops for a produce farm called Rum Agriculture. supposedly they grow a large amount of food used by Jordan on 2000 hectares. if you notice on your looking around you can see where they have done circles before and then have rotated to other areas. depending upon how much salt is in their well water that could be required every so often or it could also be a soil mineral depletion issue. i really doubt they transport much organic matter back for replenishing the soil.
 

digitS'

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Or, it could have been titled, "abandoned permaculture" and some folks might have said, "See. I told you it wouldn't work!"

Then, they open the thread and realize that, "It''s still working. Even in that difficult place!"

Often, people willing to experiment are flighty. They may be very imaginative, courageous, very hard working. But, the new is exciting to them.

@Phaedra Geiermann recently commented on a book by Gene Logsden. Great writer - very insightful and inspiring :). I looked at some info in Wikipedia on him. He spent his entire life on his family farm in Ohio. Eighty four years . What must that have been like!?

Steve
 

flowerbug

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Or, it could have been titled, "abandoned permaculture" and some folks might have said, "See. I told you it wouldn't work!"

Then, they open the thread and realize that, "It''s still working. Even in that difficult place!"

Often, people willing to experiment are flighty. They may be very imaginative, courageous, very hard working. But, the new is exciting to them.

there are two sites and i've found various videos, but unfortunately i can't be sure which videos are from which of the two sites that are out in the Wadi Rum desert. some show active irrigation at least six years ago so i think that is the larger site and not the abandoned site that was used perhaps just as a small test area. all i know is that the original small site hasn't looked to have anything much done to it for years and i don't think there is any irrigation back pressure water available either. if they have a small well and irrigation system in place i can't say. i'd doubt it. there's no sign of solar panels or any other pemanent structure there to house a well pump or anything else i can see. i'd still love to visit it and check it out. anyone invent a teleporter booth or belt yet? :)


@Phaedra Geiermann recently commented on a book by Gene Logsden. Great writer - very insightful and inspiring :). I looked at some info in Wikipedia on him. He spent his entire life on his family farm in Ohio. Eighty four years . What must that have been like!?

Steve

Ohio gets plenty of rain. if you have so much moisture as we get here in the midwest you can really do quite well, but there are also dry spells. still i think many people overdo it with chickens or other animals and they're losing diversity instead of gaining it. you can't run animals on the same area for years at a time unless you are rotating their grazing/foraging patterns and keeping some areas isolated so that your insect and animal communities are able to persist. most small farmers don't do that. for sure there are very few large farms that do that. organic farming can improve things but they too are up against tax levies and requirements to make enough income to survive. our system basically drives poor land use practices for the short term and does not reward longer term practices which are what is actually needed.
 

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