The Cost of Education

[thistlebloom]

My friend's mother put it best... you birthed it... you raise it!

You hit the nail on the head right there. As a teacher, I have seen more and more responsibility shifted to the school for raising the kids. Start school at age 3 because no one at home works with the kid. Feed them breakfast because there's no food at home. Have a full time nurse and social worker, again because the parents can't /won't do it. All this is money that would have been spent on actual instruction and materials and (HORRORS!) teacher salaries.

Is the responsibility actually shifted to the government school or was it gradually taken by them? The more that is done for people, the more is expected by them. When schools started monopolizing more and more time of a child's day,
offering before and after school care, feeding breakfast, taking care of the health aspect ( and lets not even get into schools being legally able to take a young girl in for an abortion without her parents knowledge or consent!! ) then people got used to the school doing the things that as parents they should be responsible for.

There is a laziness and a tendency to take the path of least resistance inherent in our nature. The government can make it easy to give those rights and responsibilities away.

Now, as to income, most people who go into a certain field are not ignorant of the income it generates. So then, you make your choices. My husband and I are blue collar, or whatever you would call the self employed, and have for the 34 years we've been married made far less than what a lot of people would call a "living wage". But we manage. The bills have always managed to get paid, and we have food in the cupboard. We made our choices. We will not retire, but will work until we drop. I'm not whining, it's a consequence of decisions made or not made.
I stayed home with the kids and we made it work.

I pay taxes for schools my kids never used. But I've never had the fire department put out a fire for me either, or had to call a cop for an emergency. I don't begrudge that.

 

[baymule]

My daughter started in private kindergarden because her birthday is Sept 6 and the cut off date is Sept 1, no exceptions. She went to public 1st thru 4th grade. Her 5th grade teacher was awful, the class was out of control, so to private school she went. She went back to public school in 9th grade. At the beginning of 11th grade, she realized she only needed 1/2 credit to graduate at the end of the year. Public school said no. No summer school, no extra class, no extra credit. Come back next year and go all year long to graduate. She called me and I checked her out and enrolled her back in private school. She was a A student, president of student council, in all kinds of activities and she left and never looked back.

She started college in mid term at 16. She graduated at 19. She went on to get her Masters and graduated at 22 with two Masters degrees. She now teaches at a Jr College and tells me how dumb the kids are that never learned anything in public school. She's not being mean, just honest. Most take remedial classes and go back to basics they never learned in public school. Public school is busy teaching the TASS test, thank you politicians. If the politicians would butt out and let teachers TEACH and parents let their little darlings take the lumps for their misbehavior, then somebody might actually learn something.

Teachers are up against students that behave like animals, parents that behave worse that their Spawn of Satan, politicians that blame teachers to avert blame from themselves, and rules and laws to "protect" the Devil's children from those bad, mean 'ol teachers.

The cost of education?? Yeah, we know all about that. We pay property tax that is squandered on stupid crap and Jonny still can't read. We paid for private school and then we paid for college. $$$$$$$$$$$

 

[so lucky]

My daughter started in private kindergarden because her birthday is Sept 6 and the cut off date is Sept 1, no exceptions. She went to public 1st thru 4th grade. Her 5th grade teacher was awful, the class was out of control, so to private school she went. She went back to public school in 9th grade. At the beginning of 11th grade, she realized she only needed 1/2 credit to graduate at the end of the year. Public school said no. No summer school, no extra class, no extra credit. Come back next year and go all year long to graduate. She called me and I checked her out and enrolled her back in private school. She was a A student, president of student council, in all kinds of activities and she left and never looked back.

She started college in mid term at 16. She graduated at 19. She went on to get her Masters and graduated at 22 with two Masters degrees. She now teaches at a Jr College and tells me how dumb the kids are that never learned anything in public school. She's not being mean, just honest. Most take remedial classes and go back to basics they never learned in public school. Public school is busy teaching the TASS test, thank you politicians. If the politicians would butt out and let teachers TEACH and parents let their little darlings take the lumps for their misbehavior, then somebody might actually learn something.

Teachers are up against students that behave like animals, parents that behave worse that their Spawn of Satan, politicians that blame teachers to avert blame from themselves, and rules and laws to "protect" the Devil's children from those bad, mean 'ol teachers.

The cost of education?? Yeah, we know all about that. We pay property tax that is squandered on stupid crap and Jonny still can't read. We paid for private school and then we paid for college. $$$$$$$$$$$

X2

 

[catjac1975]

Politicians make the law not teachers.

Catjac, teachers r the problem. They become administrators and add to the mess. Instead of fixing the problem, they have become the problem by suggesting alternatives and making them law.

Agree the ground floor teachers are not the problem or over paid. I do agree teachers need to be constantly taught. Private industry is constantly educating their employees

 

[catjac1975]

That all worked until the first law suit against the school department.

Cuts after cuts are why parents need to buy all that stuff. You will also supplement the kids who's parents can't or won't buy the supplies. School systems choose to forgo new texts and supplies to keep a few extra teachers from being cut. I have taught classes of 39 and classes of 14. Who got the better education?

Cuts or waste? When I first went to school the school crossing were manned by "The Patrol" (The patrols were older students), not paid crossing guards. The building had opened its doors in 1881 (I think we still had the same desks? At least they had holes for ink wells.) The administrative staff consisted of the principal (Mr. Sifferman (sp?)) and the office lady. The maintenance staff was one man and one woman. We had a traveling school nurse who came by about once a week for an hour or two.

How did we ever manage to learn what with being that deprived?

 

[vfem]

I don't expect ANYONE to pay for things my child will need, I will do that at all costs... but I surely will not pay for someone else's child.

You surely do pay for someone else's child...with your property taxes. And i pay for other people's children, even though i dont have any children. :/ that was a real eye opener when we bought our house 5 years ago.

That I don't mind I guess you could say. Tax are supposed to pay for the big picture (*laughter & eye rolling inserted here*). But when I get a list that tells me I am now buying what my child will need for the years, but have to buy double and triple for actual items to cover other people's kids. OH HELL NO! I know very well some of those people are poorer or as poor as me. Most the time they mismanage their money, or blantantly don't care and WON'T buy what is needed because someone else will do. That's just stupid and if those kids fail in life, which they will, its their parents not the teachers anyways. I'm not working harder or paying more for someone else's laziness....

and again I do not blame the teachers.. I'm sure 75% of them do great! I'm not going to argue what's wrong with the other 25%. I go back to the parents being public school enemy #1!!!!

 

[897tgigvib]

If I ever reproduce, I sure as tooting would not let my offspring be tainted by public schools. They'd go to a Montessori school and be homeschooled. By the way, both my parents were school teachers. What they saw was the dumbing of education over the decades of their lives.

 

[seedcorn]

and again I do not blame the teachers.. I'm sure 75% of them do great! I'm not going to argue what's wrong with the other 25%. I go back to the parents being public school enemy #1!!!!

Agree. This is a society problem. We have people adding to the gene pool when their genes need to be eliminated from the pool. What do u do with people who r unwilling to take care of their children

Cat-exteachers become administrators who tell politicians what they need to pass. All laws concerning schools r passed with blessings/encouragement of administrators & teacher associations.

 

[Wisher1000]

Hello, all!

I have to jump in here. I have three boys in public school. I have worked in public schools as an outsider (not faculty or staff) for 15 years. It gave me an interesting perspective on the system. I see the problems all have mentioned and must say that I agree that they all are problems. I don't think we are disagreeing with each other, just concentrating on different problematic issues in education as we know it today. Here's my question, What is the solution? Is it charter schools (I admit, I'm not sure how they work) or some other type of school? Private? Church? Homeschool? Is it a total revamp of the public school system? What do we need as opposed to what do we want? I think that it certainly means teaching the three R's. We must also include current technology and social networking. What else? I really think we need more PE, not less. It is so important that kids get out and play, alot. It relaxes the body and mind, it depletes excess energy, it teaches consideration and social interaction, and it is healthy.

I have been toying with the idea of going back to the Pass/Fail type education model and start it very early. Do away with the age specific grades and go to skill level groups. Yes, you would have to have age ranges and different approaches for teaching the different groups, but I think it would be interesting to see what would happen. It could be quite complicated, but it could also be quite simple to start.

Level one (parents enroll their child as soon as they feel the child is ready) minimum requirements a) bathrooms on his own b) counts objects to twenty c) recites and recognizes entire alphabet and numbers
These are not everything, just what I thought of off the top of my head. There could be a comittee of teachers to pass/fail each child before they are accepted and parents (GASP!) would be required to teach these skills at home. If a child can't learn these things, other arrangements would need to be made.

Level two the child/student is advanced as soon as minimum requirements are met. Reads X number of words (or a list of words in random order) Performs math facts in addition and subtraction of all numbers 0 - 9. If the child is taught this at home, they can start school later, or start a higher level to begin with.

I know there would be social and developmental issues to be worked out but what do you all think? Discussion starter question....

 

[catjac1975]

Teachers did not write the No Child Left behind Legislation Which has caused schools to teach to a test rather than the students' needs. So much time is wasted teaching kids how to pass a test rather than use real knowledge. Everyone who has attended school knows that some people are inherently smarter than others. Hard work can help students overcome many shortcomings. However lack of hard work can waste beautiful potential. In most cases parental support is what makes the difference in a student's achievement and success.

Catjac, teachers r the problem. They become administrators and add to the mess. Instead of fixing the problem, they have become the problem by suggesting alternatives and making them law.

Agree the ground floor teachers are not the problem or over paid. I do agree teachers need to be constantly taught. Private industry is constantly educating their employees