2022 Little Easy Bean Network - We Are Beans Without Borders

[Pulsegleaner]

We're on a wierd mind link with this because as I was typing my response last night I was thinking of Milton Friedman and what he would say. I hold him in the highest regard, but I imagine it might be one of the few places where I'd feel differently than he would. As a believer in free markets, its all about what the market supports; if increasing wealth is the goal, then you gotta go where you can do that. There are limits to markets though, on multiple levels. Much like having a game of chess, you can't just change the rules or limits mid-game so that you can further your own ability to win. I consider this patenting of life many things, one of which is market rigging, avoiding or preventing competition, which is the heart of the marketplace.

There are innumerable people who have invested trmendous time, money and energy into a 'product' - sometimes it's there whole life's work - and didn't turn a profit. That's just how it works sometimes. Those investments don't necessarily mean they should get paid; if that was the case then the people who invented spray on hair and the urban window baby cage need to get paid. 🤣 Or even the couple a few years ago who spent years researching a 'special' name for the child they would have someday, hours of research and study of Latinate roots and horticultural terms, and when the child was born they wanted to trademark the childs' name, but couldn't. Much as they invested thier time, the marketplace (for now) doesn't support 'owning' human names and language. This is no doubt that heirloom seeds have never got much traction in the commerical world because as soon as you sell your product your consumer can reproduce if for themselves forever. It's a situation where you would be working yourself out of a job every time. It only makes sense that they weren't a good 'product' for development.
IMO if people who want to get into breeding OP vegetables they should be free to do that, but not look for rewards in that process that the market doesn't support. The heirloom seed world is no stranger to market rigging in this sense; I read not long ago the bush bean Peruano was claimed by patent in the 90's and nobody else was allowed to grow it or distribute seed. Patent was only lifted in 2008.

That's true, but I was going a bit deeper, asking if not only should you not expect a profit, but if social responsibility obligates you to go ahead with the project knowing you will not only make no profit but even suffer massive (possibly life security ending) losses. Does the social contract mean you HAVE to sacrifice yourself for the common good, no matter the personal cost?

It all goes back to the question of when generosity turns to madness, and selflessness and self-sacrifice into self-destruction. At what point do the needs of others NOT outweigh your own? Do they ever, or do you have a duty to give literally EVERYTHING of yourself in the name of improving the general lot. And if you REFUSE to do that, are you in fact doing evil and in need of punishment by society? IS attempting self-preservation in fact an inalienable right?

To me, at least, these things don't have simple, quick answers.

 

[flowerbug]

... IS attempting self-preservation in fact an inalienable right?

the usual answer is "It depends." if you are a society at war with a neighbor then some portion of your society is going to be required to fight and that is not self-preservation directly but only indirectly.

as this is way off topic for this thread i'll leave it at that.

 

[Tormato]

from UC Rio Zape registration, emphasis mine:


UC Rio Zape has Matterhorn (great northern bean) as the donor parent but it's about 98% Rio Zape. [eta: they make it sound like reverses are quite common with that type of coat pattern]

Does anyone know... When there are reverse beans, can they be mixed with regular colored beans within the same pod?

eta: it looks like it would be easy to confirm reverses by growing some out

I've seen reverse colored seed show up as every other seed in a pod (regular, reversed, regular, reversed, regular, etc...).

 

[Blue-Jay]

I've seen reverse colored seed show up as every other seed in a pod (regular, reversed, regular, reversed, regular, etc...).

From what I've been told by a dry bean breeder at the University of North Dakota Juan Osorno. There are two genes that control seed coat color. You get reverses depending on which gene is active when a particular seed is forming. You can grow all reverses and will still get about the same percentage of the usual seed coat and reverses. The reverses are completely normal part of many varieties seed coat development. You see it in probably every cranberry variety, and many mottled seed coated beans. Lots of snap beans with mottled seed coats do this also. Some bean varieties will show reverses when more than one color is involved in beans that have eye patches. The reverse happens only in the colors of the eye patch. Sometimes you will get a pod that has mostly regular colored beans and maybe one reverse or maybe two reverses. I have seen it but rarely where the seed in the entire pod reverses the colors.

 

[Blue-Jay]

I discovered another Robert lobitz bean name from the Seed Savers Exchange seed historian that hasn't been mentioned in regards to my recent post about all Robert's orignal named beans. That is "Little Cloud Leopard".

 

[Tormato]

From what I've been told by a dry bean breeder at the University of North Dakota Juan Osorno. There are two genes that control seed coat color. You get reverses depending on which gene is active when a particular seed is forming. You can grow all reverses and will still get about the same percentage of the usual seed coat and reverses. The reverses are completely normal part of many varieties seed coat development. You see it in probably every cranberry variety, and many mottled seed coated beans. Lots of snap beans with mottled seed coats do this also. Some bean varieties will show reverses when more than one color is involved in beans that have eye patches. The reverse happens only in the colors of the eye patch. Sometimes you will get a pod that has mostly regular colored beans and maybe one reverse or maybe two reverses. I have seen it but rarely where the seed in the entire pod reverses the colors.

I've also seen beans that have both the regular pattern and the reverse pattern on the same bean. It is usually one side that has one of the patterns, while the other side has mostly the other pattern with a bit of the first pattern showing.

And, on all of reverse colored seeds that I've seen, the swirls are always much shorter and straighter.

 

[Blue-Jay]

Hey @Tormato,

Welcome to our bean family. Hope you will be spending some time with us.

 

[flowerbug]

I've also seen beans that have both the regular pattern and the reverse pattern on the same bean. It is usually one side that has one of the patterns, while the other side has mostly the other pattern with a bit of the first pattern showing.

i've seen this on some beans (striped beans and pinto type patterns) but not all beans with reverses do this.

 

[BeanWonderin]

For those who have grown Cappuccino Nano - do any of these look characteristic? The second from the right seems to match the photo on Russ's website the closest. These all came off our network Cappuccino Nano plants this year. That variety did not do very well for us and I'm trying to figure out which, if any, to send back.

 

[flowerbug]

For those who have grown Cappuccino Nano - do any of these look characteristic? The second from the right seems to match the photo on Russ's website the closest. These all came off our network Cappuccino Nano plants this year. That variety did not do very well for us and I'm trying to figure out which, if any, to send back.

View attachment 54017

i agree with your evaluation.

i'm assuming these four selections came each from individual plants?