A Seed Saver's Garden

[meadow]

I ask mostly because, depending on how hot your summers get, peppers can sometimes do better above ground in a pot than in ground. If it is a very hot summer they can do excellent in ground too. I had some bell peppers planted in ground last year during a scorching & wet summer and they grew fantastic. But that is really rare for my area.

What size pot would be sufficient if growing outside?

We normally have cool summers, with maybe a week or two of 'hot' weather. Last year was very unusual.

 

[meadow]

I design my cages so that I can open the downwind side, and open that side as soon as enough peppers have set for seed.

What do you use for the framework?

Thank you so much for the tips!

 

[Zeedman]

What do you use for the framework?

Thank you so much for the tips!

I use 1/2" PVC pipe/conduit for cage frames, since it is smooth & won't rip the cover. The legs are slipped over 2' pieces of 3/8" rebar, driven 12" into the ground, to support the cage in strong winds. The PVC corners & 4-way connectors might be hard to find, I had to order the 4-ways from an online greenhouse supply. I constructed 3'W X 3'L X 2'H permanently-glued cells, which can be used singly, or linked together for extended lengths. As in the photo below, I usually have a 3' extender between two cells to get a 9' X 3' cage, which has room or 6-8 plants.

The cover is the lightest grade of Agribon floating row cover. This allows the most light penetration, while still keeping pollinators out... but has the lowest heat retention. That works well for me, since we have hot summers; but in a cooler climate, a heavier grade might give better results. The cover is buried on all but the downwind side; the open side is held down by something both heavy & easily removable... a length of 1/2" rebar, a T-post, or a line of bricks. I prefer the 1/2" rebar (in a length just slightly longer than the cage) since I can use that to hold up the flap when the cage is open.

Much to my surprise, I don't have a good photo of the cages; but you can just see them on the right side here. The cover in the foreground was partially blown off during a thunderstorm, but the peppers had over-grown their 2' cage anyway:

If you don't want to build permanent cages, you can make a low tunnel hoop house, with the wire ends driven into the ground, and a cover over that. Garden stores sell pre-formed coated wire hoops which make the task easier, won't rust (as easily) and don't cost much. In a cool climate, it would be additionally helpful to use black agricultural plastic inside the hoops to warm the soil, and plant the peppers through that.

I should note that in addition to holding in heat, the cages increase humidity around the plants. Peppers thrive on that; but that same increased humidity is harmful for tomatoes, since it will promote the rapid spread of foliar diseases. Ask me how I know...

 

[heirloomgal]

What size pot would be sufficient if growing outside?

We normally have cool summers, with maybe a week or two of 'hot' weather. Last year was very unusual.

I think the pots I use are about 2 or 3 gallon pots. I used to use the really big ones, thinking that 'bigger is better', but when I realised that my 'leftover' plants (which I always have troubling throwing away) that were put into small containers did better. Then I read a couple things about peppers - they often do better in medium pots because it keeps the roots very warm, as opposed to cool in ground. I had observed this before reading it, because I originally had 2 colours of pots - terra cotta coloured and black - I ended up getting rid of all the terra cotta colour ones because the plants in them never did near as well as the blacks. Not as warm. And then I read about how when the roots grow enough to reach the side of the pots - they feel that limitation - they are driven into a max level production. Much like pruning, that 'limiting' of growth results in a doubling up effect. I got lucky last year with a couple rows of outdoor peppers but generally I only grow peppers in pots.

 

[heirloomgal]

I use 1/2" PVC pipe/conduit for cage frames, since it is smooth & won't rip the cover. The legs are slipped over 2' pieces of 3/8" rebar, driven 12" into the ground, to support the cage in strong winds. The PVC corners & 4-way connectors might be hard to find, I had to order the 4-ways from an online greenhouse supply. I constructed 3'W X 3'L X 2'H permanently-glued cells, which can be used singly, or linked together for extended lengths. As in the photo below, I usually have a 3' extender between two cells to get a 9' X 3' cage, which has room or 6-8 plants.

The cover is the lightest grade of Agribon floating row cover. This allows the most light penetration, while still keeping pollinators out... but has the lowest heat retention. That works well for me, since we have hot summers; but in a cooler climate, a heavier grade might give better results. The cover is buried on all but the downwind side; the open side is held down my something both heavy & easily removable... a length of 1/2" rebar, a T-post, or a line of bricks. I prefer the 1/2" rebar (in a length just slightly longer than the cage) since I can use that to hold up the flap when the cage is open.

Much to my surprise, I don't have a good photo of the cages; but you can just see them on the right side here. The cover in the foreground was partially blown off during a thunderstorm, but the peppers had over-grown their 2' cage anyway"
View attachment 46985

If you don't want to build permanent cages, you can make a low tunnel hoop house, with the wire ends driven into the ground, and a cover over that. Garden stores sell pre-formed coated wire hoops which make the task easier, won't rust (as easily) and don't cost much. In a cool climate, it would be additionally helpful to use black agricultural plastic inside the hoops to warm the soil, and plant the peppers through that.

I should note that in addition to holding in heat, the cages increase humidity around the plants. Peppers thrive on that; but that same increased humidity is harmful for tomatoes, since it will promote the rapid spread of foliar diseases. Ask me how I know...

Wow! That is a remarkable attention to detail and refinement in your set up!! Amazing! Isn't it so true that, at least when it comes to gardening, paying attention to the small details can really result in wildly different outcomes.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Bitter melon seed IS usually tan but black ones are out there (the same way that luffa seeds are normally black, but I have seen creamy tan ones). Neither of mine are, but I seem to recall that black seeds are commoner in those bitter melons that produce white, as opposed to green, immature fruit (I say immature because we both know a fully mature fruit is orange, or maybe yellow for the white ones (I have never seen a picture of a mature white bitter melon fruit).

Found someone with white seeded loofah
https://www.etsy.com/listing/764035...urchases_similar_listings-6&pro=1&frs=1&sts=1

 

[heirloomgal]

Found someone with white seeded loofah
https://www.etsy.com/listing/764035693/luffa-seeds-loofah-seeds-luffa-gourd?click_key=570b5a6fe913f8b1de6fea1fb7167615dee5ad7e:764035693&click_sum=679203e3&ref=purchases_similar_listings-6&pro=1&frs=1&sts=1

Is this rare? Have you eaten loofah? I read that when small you can eat it like zucchini...

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Is this rare? Have you eaten loofah? I read that when small you can eat it like zucchini...

1. I think so, most loofahs I have seen have black seeds.
2+3 Yes, but not recently. And yes, when they are young you can eat them like zucchini (though you have to peel them first, many are sort of fuzzy/prickly and the Angled Luffa (Luffa actangualta), which is usually the one preferred for eating, has a very tough, ridged skin.)

Skip the other four or five species, not only are they hard to find, they are generally too small to bother with. (They have a minor use in Asian medicine, but not much else.)

 

[meadow]

Thank you both, @Zeedman and @heirloomgal for sharing the details of your pepper setups! They will be put to good use! 🥰

 

[Zeedman]

I think the pots I use are about 2 or 3 gallon pots. I used to use the really big ones, thinking that 'bigger is better', but when I realised that my 'leftover' plants (which I always have troubling throwing away) that were put into small containers did better. Then I read a couple things about peppers - they often do better in medium pots because it keeps the roots very warm, as opposed to cool in ground. I had observed this before reading it, because I originally had 2 colours of pots - terra cotta coloured and black - I ended up getting rid of all the terra cotta colour ones because the plants in them never did near as well as the blacks. Not as warm. And then I read about how when the roots grow enough to reach the side of the pots - they feel that limitation - they are driven into a max level production. Much like pruning, that 'limiting' of growth results in a doubling up effect. I got lucky last year with a couple rows of outdoor peppers but generally I only grow peppers in pots.

Good point, about the potentially increased increased soil temperature in pots. I say 'potentially' because that increased temperature is dependent upon full sun, and a darker pot color. Eggplant REALLY need warm soil (much like okra), so they can benefit from this even more than peppers. I grow a few eggplants in pots every year now, even if the main planting is in the garden... the plants in pots produce earlier & heavier than those in the ground.

You do need to be extra attentive to potted vegetables during hot weather though, because the increased temperature can quickly dry out the soil. During one hot spell, I found it necessary to prop plywood up against the south side of the pots (which contained peppers that year) to reduce soil temperature.