Cougar at home

[flowerbug]

“Where people weren’t before”, so what land does that leave? Or are we going to be selective? Person A can remove animals but person B can’t? Slippery slope you are on. Mice were there before us, so allow mice to breed in your house? Dang breeding vermin.....

nope. i control them. when they got into my car they did damage and it stunk.

as for wild spaces. there's hardly anything left alone and as populations keep growing it will be harder and harder to keep them as they are.

we don't say anything about person A or person B we instead talk about Area 1 or Area 2. we don't let people into wild areas on purpose to keep them wild. as time goes on we should be bringing the population in line with what is sustainable. the current population is unlikely to be sustainable at current trends of consumption. to me that sounds like vermin out of control or the classical experiment where bacteria die in their own wastes...

 

[flowerbug]

Flowerbug ...By your way of thinking... why are you living in Michigan instead of the Rift Valley of Africa ????????

this is not a wild area, it hasn't been for quite some time. as for choices and location, family is here not there.

i wouldn't mind at all if wolves were brought back and other wild creatures. mice are here already as are coyotes and many other creatures, but deer sure could use a predator species.

as far as my own life. i keep it simple and don't have children and try to support things like sustainable living, clean air, clean water, not poisoning the land so that anyone who comes along next can keep growing veggies and fruits and not have to worry their efforts will make them sick.

 

[bobm]

i wouldn't mind at all if wolves were brought back and other wild creatures. mice are here already as are coyotes and many other creatures, but deer sure could use a predator species.

You claim that deer need a new predator species.... well, Coyotes were unknown East of the Mississippi R. , after they made the migration to move to the eastern states, they started to prey on deer fawns., the coyotes then crossed with dogs that are now known as coydogs , soon after the coyotes crossed with wolves , now known as coywolves. Now , there is evidence that there are three way crosses between them. These animals are quite a bit bigger and they run down and kill adult deer. All of these crossbreds as well as coyotes have been seen hunting even in very populated big cities occupied by humans, such as Chicago and New York, NY. so they kill any sick or healthy deer that they come upon. Then there is homo sapiens who is an old predator species for deer and have been hunting deer for thousands upon thousands of years. The only fly in the ointment these days is that some of the bleeding hearts put quite a big yoke on the human hunters . Oh yea, another old deer predator is known by Indians as " Sasquatch" , or now Big Foot or Swamp Monster"

 

[flowerbug]

humans may hunt deer, but we don't live among them or chase them to notice which ones are weak or sick. there is a difference between a hunter with a high power rifle killing the deer that walks by vs the hunting that wolves would provide. the disease the is currently spreading among deer would not have it so easy if there were fewer deer and the sick/weak were being taken down by wolves.

yes, i've heard about the coywolves/coydogs/etc cross breeds, but they are not common. we have coyotes in this area, they do not make much impact on the deer population and they are too shy to hunt open spaces much at all.

i doubt any appreciable population of coyanything will appear here because of the open spaces and the number of hunters but we'll see what happens.

 

[seedcorn]

What? You kill mice? You are messing with the balance of nature. Leave them alone. Allow the population of hawks and other predators a chance to catch up.... You might need to open windows/doors to allow some access to mice. you know, circle of life. Mice were there before you or your family...

 

[bobm]

humans may hunt deer, but we don't live among them or chase them to notice which ones are weak or sick. there is a difference between a hunter with a high power rifle killing the deer that walks by vs the hunting that wolves would provide. the disease the is currently spreading among deer would not have it so easy if there were fewer deer and the sick/weak were being taken down by wolves.

yes, i've heard about the coywolves/coydogs/etc cross breeds, but they are not common. we have coyotes in this area, they do not make much impact on the deer population and they are too shy to hunt open spaces much at all.

i doubt any appreciable population of coyanything will appear here because of the open spaces and the number of hunters but we'll see what happens.

From your posts, it is quite obvious that you have never hunted. Or even observed coyotes hunting in open fields. On my 20 acres, There is ONE 300 year oak tree and native grasses.I see coyotes out and about every day , they even go into my horse barn from time to time. There are community sings of up to a dozen coyotes every morning and evening and often within 20 yards of our home. You could set your watch by their howles. The cyotes seem to prefer cat over groundsquirels or mice as I had to go to the county pound to pick up 10 feral cats every 2-3 months to control mice. But most of the cats would be eaten by the coyotes starting within a couple days to 2-3 months, then gone just their head and some hair/ fur as evidence of their demise. Then there is a 5,000 acre cattle ranch just a mile from my ranch dotted with centuries old Valley Oaks, Coyotes kill MANY calves at and during births ... as the cow is down and pushing, the coyotes will sneak in and start to chew off the calf's nose then the tongue at wich point the calf is doomed and if not killed by then , they starve to death in short order. The cow's vulva is often bitten and seriously damaged and the owner has to treat the damaged tissues or call a Vet. and pay a huge bill or the cow will die from infection. Every year during Christmas to New Year, the ranch owner invites friends / relatives for a coyote hunt. They harvest up to 75 per year and it hardly puts a dent in their population. my neighbor , right accros the road from us , raises sheep . Coyotes climb over the corral 6 foot tall wire fence where the sheep are kept at night for protection. His Border Collies are too afraid to go into the corral at night , so had a Doberman Pincher, German 'shepherd, a few large mutts and Rotweiler killed by coyotes.All that he found of the Rottwiler was it's head and hide. During Spring lambing season, between him and myself, we kill up to 15 coyotes per year right as the coyotes are in the act of killing lambs. Within 10 years, we killed 2 coydogs ( coyote x Golden Lab that were HUGE). That is real life, and not some pipe dream.

 

[flowerbug]

same thing as said before... bye...

 

[ducks4you]

properly managed hunting still does not remove sick/weak deer from the population. you need a predator species.

Sorry, you are wrong about this, at least in the State of Illinois. We do a LOT of things wrong here, but hunters must submit samples from each deer they take and they are analyzed. We have a pretty healthy deer population here, although in the last few years not enough deer were killed by hunters and there has been some starvation, so we need to relax the oversight and allow a few more. Surrounding states are not as careful about their own deer populations and disease will cross state lines.

 

[ducks4you]

From your posts, it is quite obvious that you have never hunted. Or even observed coyotes hunting in open fields. On my 20 acres, There is ONE 300 year oak tree and native grasses.I see coyotes out and about every day , they even go into my horse barn from time to time. There are community sings of up to a dozen coyotes every morning and evening and often within 20 yards of our home. You could set your watch by their howles. The cyotes seem to prefer cat over groundsquirels or mice as I had to go to the county pound to pick up 10 feral cats every 2-3 months to control mice. But most of the cats would be eaten by the coyotes starting within a couple days to 2-3 months, then gone just their head and some hair/ fur as evidence of their demise. Then there is a 5,000 acre cattle ranch just a mile from my ranch dotted with centuries old Valley Oaks, Coyotes kill MANY calves at and during births ... as the cow is down and pushing, the coyotes will sneak in and start to chew off the calf's nose then the tongue at wich point the calf is doomed and if not killed by then , they starve to death in short order. The cow's vulva is often bitten and seriously damaged and the owner has to treat the damaged tissues or call a Vet. and pay a huge bill or the cow will die from infection. Every year during Christmas to New Year, the ranch owner invites friends / relatives for a coyote hunt. They harvest up to 75 per year and it hardly puts a dent in their population. my neighbor , right accros the road from us , raises sheep . Coyotes climb over the corral 6 foot tall wire fence where the sheep are kept at night for protection. His Border Collies are too afraid to go into the corral at night , so had a Doberman Pincher, German 'shepherd, a few large mutts and Rotweiler killed by coyotes.All that he found of the Rottwiler was it's head and hide. During Spring lambing season, between him and myself, we kill up to 15 coyotes per year right as the coyotes are in the act of killing lambs. Within 10 years, we killed 2 coydogs ( coyote x Golden Lab that were HUGE). That is real life, and not some pipe dream.

@bobm is there no one near year that these ranchers can pay to kill them? We have some hunters here who will kill the coyotes/coywolves and sell the pelts. The going rate used to be about $55/pelt.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Sorry, you are wrong about this, at least in the State of Illinois. We do a LOT of things wrong here, but hunters must submit samples from each deer they take and they are analyzed. We have a pretty healthy deer population here, although in the last few years not enough deer were killed by hunters and there has been some starvation, so we need to relax the oversight and allow a few more. Surrounding states are not as careful about their own deer populations and disease will cross state lines.

In Arkansas the last I heard was a limit of 6 deer but no more than two could be bucks. Trying to limit herd size. They need more meat hunters not just trophy hunters.

That wasting disease is recently in Arkansas too. My guess is that they brought it in when they reintroduced Elk to the state though supposedly they tested the elk before they released them.