Discombobulated

heirloomgal

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I was told, well not told, my paperwork was THROWN at me from a jackass doctor who said GET VACCINATED, YOU ARE NOT RUBELLA IMMUNE.
Here's an interesting thing about this @Gardening with Rabbits. In 2018, when I got my dog, I brought him to the vet for deworming. While there, of course, she mentions vaccinations. The man I got my puppy from had already brought him to a vet for shots as far as I knew, so this seemed unnecessary to me. She mentions boosters and this and that, he has no protection to this and that, and having once worked in a vet clinic, I knew the game. (I also saw many animals die of the most high $$value$$ preventative care money could afford, especially heartworm treatment.) Their bread and butter is this stuff. I stood my ground, I have a lot of practice at that. ;) It was a interesting conversation we had, a bit like going into battle, but all very mannerly of course. Much to my surprise, because this was not around when I worked in a clinic, she finally admits that there is a 'titres' test we can give my dog. This will actually test his immune response to pathogens young dogs might face. So we mutually agree that that will be the next step, and do a blood draw. Two hours later I get this very sheepish message that, indeed my dogs immune response is just fine - he does not need vaccines or boosters.

If I had actually believed her relentless arguments I would have been out close to a thousand bucks, and injected my dog with unnecessary "whatever". Veterinary medicine faces much of the same pharmaceutical pressure as human medicine.

Parvovirus, which is considered probably the most dangerous disease to dogs, was actually introduced by feline parvo vaccines in the 1970's. It's a vaccine induced disease.

But you have to wonder, how is it I can easily test my dog's immune system (it was $50) response to whatever pathogen, but we can't perform the same test on humans? Seems very strange to me.
 
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heirloomgal

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Yes, evaluating risk is important. I've mentioned polio a number of times. "Most people who get infected with poliovirus (about 72 out of 100) will not have any visible symptoms."

CDC

And yet, measures were needed and taken to deal with the periodic epidemics.
In the case of polio today in Africa, the only strain really affecting people is from the vaccine. They have created a vaccine to now 'immunise' you from the last polio vaccine. I really hope this doesn't go the way of antiobiotics, where we've created super strains that we seem to have no hope of saving people from. The death toll is very high with those.
 

heirloomgal

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That the healthcare recommendations of thousands of agencies worldwide are considered by some as a global lie surprises me.

Ireland's Health Services reported October 5th that over 87% of that nation's people have been vaccinated for the C-19 virus. You can read some of their healthcare recommendations and news here: LINK
The success of their endeavour toward medical market dominance certainly is remarkable. 6 media companies control 90% of the entire world media. The thousands of subsidiary media outlets are just clones and represent the same interests and goals of the parent corporations. Same goes for the medical monopolies. Those thousands of 'individual' organisations are kind of like scales on the same reptile. It's a cultivated and useful illusion. The ancient world used plain physical brutality to control the peoples they wished to subjugate. Now, control in the marketplace of ideas is used to subjugate the populations (much easier & more clever), thus the importance of the censorship (or firings) in the medical community we see today. Any ideas which challenge the goals of those monopolies, must be ignored, silenced or eliminated. But for those who have not limited themselves to the mainstream marketplace of ideas, as we see in Australia or Europe, the more ancient & original expression of tyranny - physical brutality, reveals itself.

Law enforcement beating large groups of people with clubs, or shooting them with rubber bullets - or firing masses of healthcare workers - hardly represents caring about public health. A great many people are onto this whole thing. At rallies no one talks covid, at all. It isn't really about that anymore, not at this point. The only talk I hear is about trust. People are suspicious of where this thing originated.

I don't know what to make about the percentage claims. I think they may be untrue, as some political pundits are saying. I'm getting daily calls to make an appointment. Hard to imagine it's that pressing if so many got it. It's a kind of PR to say, 'look how many got it and are fine', a bet on the winning horse sort of thing. Like the polls for some election cycles.
 
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flowerbug

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In the case of polio today in Africa, the only strain really affecting people is from the vaccine. They have created a vaccine to now 'immunise' you from the last polio vaccine. I really hope this doesn't go the way of antiobiotics, where we've created super strains that we seem to have no hope of saving people from. The death toll is very high with those.

the more people who do not get vaccinated the more chances for more mutations.

as simple as that.
 

digitS'

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Distrust "mainstream" media, distrust medical community, and distrust government agencies, have I got that right?

At rallies no one talks covid, at all. It isn't really about that anymore, not at this point. The only talk I hear is about trust

Trust the distrustful and the more vigorously distrustful, the better to be trusted, for a brighter future? Strikes me as retrograde. But, that may just be from an imagined baton.
 

Ridgerunner

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Discombobulated. Distrustful.

I regret my last post in this thread because I should have known better. We are not going to change anybody's mind by discussing or arguing this. All were going to do is wind up saying something that is hurtful to someone or gets them really mad. We've already lost some forum members because of some of the things that have been said on here, especially back in the earlier days of Covid. We even went so far as to have two different threads, this one and one labeled compassionate for the anti-vaxer anti-mask group, so we could say things without the thread immediately devolving into something not nice. Yeah, people with like views reinforcing others with those views.

We are not going to change anyone's mind with our logic or statistics. I think Kellyanne Conway explained it very well when she said they used alternate facts. People thought she was saying they make things up to suit themselves. Not at all. We can't agree on numbers because some people won't believe any numbers any government agency puts out. A doctor censored by the medical board for using unapproved procedures or fails peer review may have more credibility to some people because he or she is a maverick and doesn't kowtow to government as opposed to one that uses approved procedures.

We have different priorities. On the polio thing. I think back on the thousands that were dying and the tens of thousands that were crippled annually just in the US before the vaccine as opposed to those numbers 20 years after the vaccine was introduced and used. Others seem to focus on the few people that reportedly die or are injured by the vaccine. Speaking of distrust I don't totally trust those numbers either (total reported deaths and crippling or deaths by vaccine) but I knew people that were crippled by polio before the vaccine. Not many, but a few. I'm that old.

I could give more examples of why I think we are dealing with alternate facts and different priorities but anything I say will probably get somebody else mad. I do believe that people are using reasons valid and rational to them when they come up with their positions, whether they are or are not valid or rational to me. And trying to convince someone that they are irrational is not going to change someone's mind, it's just going to get them mad.

I may regret this post. I'll probably weaken but I'll try to avoid the topic in the future is I can. Especially for those that have been closely affected by Covid the topic is too touchy, it's easy to cause hurt. And people are very passionate on both sides.
 

digitS'

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Hawaii has been on the very low end of COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, etc. Nevertheless, because it is a US state and shares both federal healthcare programs and a common individual insurance market, the citizens pay costs related to the healthcare of all Americans.

This is an editorial from Hawaii's largest daily newspaper relating information on costs of COVID hospitalization. Averages of over $300,000 for serious illnesses and about $75,000 for those less seriously ill.

 

digitS'

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Romania: fully vaccinated " ... 36% of its adult population against a European Union average of 74%." They have requested UN help because of overflowing hospitals. LINK, Reuters

Meanwhile, Puerto Rico has an 88% vaccination rate for eligible, LINK, Department of Health

And, the leader of the NT, Australia responds to criticism by US politician - Australian news, LINK (near the bottom of the page).

digitS'
 

digitS'

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The director of the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare has something to say.

A surge. "coronavirus positivity rate is nearly double the state’s ..." The northern counties hitting the bottom for both more cases and fewer vaccinated in comparison to the other parts of Idaho is a sad situation. The Mayo Clinic shows that only the residents of West Virginia and Wyoming have lower vaccination rates than Idaho (by fractions of a percent) link.

After so many months with so few COVID deaths, the current trend is sharply higher. US News published this graph for deaths per 100,000 population link.


zcovid trend.jpg
You can click the graph to see it more clearly.
 
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